Nightlies

[PowerDiver]

Still there in the OS X nightly of 23 Feb. Playing on Intel 10.6.6.

Strange problem. Started a new character with 23 Feb issue. I'm *convinced* that the numpad worked until I 5ed to sit out confusion and discovered nothing was happening; since 5ing the odd (ie diagonal movement) numbers don't work, whereas the even (vert/horiz) numbers work intermittently.

Backtracked to 20 Feb issue with same character file, and the even numbers worked but the odd numbers didn't.

13 Feb issue is fine.

I tried the latest code a day or two ago, and the numpad never worked for stepping, but did work for running with the shift key. This is using X11 under Linux. I opened a ticket. Perhaps you should add your comments to that ticket.

[scud]

Has anyone had a chance to look at this yet? I see new nightlies up, but hesitant to mess with it if nothing has been fixed.

Still there in the OS X nightly of 23 Feb. Playing on Intel 10.6.6.

Strange problem. Started a new character with 23 Feb issue. I'm *convinced* that the numpad worked until I 5ed to sit out confusion and discovered nothing was happening; since 5ing the odd (ie diagonal movement) numbers don't work, whereas the even (vert/horiz) numbers work intermittently.

Backtracked to 20 Feb issue with same character file, and the even numbers worked but the odd numbers didn't.

13 Feb issue is fine.

[Taha]

Keypad and Macro issue

The following is all going from the Feb 13 nightly to the Feb 20 nightly on OS X 10.6.

I get the following error on loading my file: "Parse error in /mypath/taha.prf line 475 column 1: P: undefined directive". The game loads, but the keypad doesn't work for motion - arrows do, as do number keys on the top of the keyboard. Interact with macros shows only options a-e, all relating to keymaps. All my macros are missing. Tried suiciding character and restarting, same issues.

Starting a new fresh character doesn't get the error, but the keypad still doesn't work. No way to interact with macros there either.

The savefile broken issue was going backwards, not forwards. Opening the modified file with the slightly older nightly gave an error about a corrupted save file. The funny part was the error: "Savefile too old. Try importing it into an older Angband first."

The old character and a new one and my prf file is attached.

Has anyone had a chance to look at this yet? I see new nightlies up, but hesitant to mess with it if nothing has been fixed. Losing the keypad hurts survival odds.

Oh, and I like no selling - I definitely have had more money and less hassle without selling than with the nerfed selling in the nightlies. I'm sure that will be balanced some before the next release, but having already adjusted to the drop in cash with selling, this feels like the logical place to go.
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Web Shows

[Derakon]

In no-selling, you can in fact sell items to the stores; you just always get 0AU for them. So basically you sell to ID, recharge items at the magic shop, or I suppose you could use the stores as risky temporary storage, though I can't imagine what scenario would provoke that.

And yeah, money's a bit too common with no-selling right now.

[Taha]

I really like the stat drain changes. It makes them less painful very early with quick level ups, but more of a pain in the mid game. At level 26 or so, with no ESP or SI, getting drained has hit me pretty hard a few times, but you live with it because there isn't an alternative. My perspective:

Plus:
Less grinding - significantly fewer trips to town, less need to scum or grind for money if a strength drainer catches you early.
Makes leveling up more interesting and exciting. Some strategic value in that near level up or with high xp monsters.
Fewer semi-useless / hard to ID potions to try when doing ID by use. Which is a mechanic I like.
Dealing with drained stats in the midgame. I never used to play for long with significantly drained stats once I had any sort of money. Now I do. Reduced str/con in particular is interesting to manage while you either play on or try to level up.
There is now a truly valuable mushroom. Vigor gets a slot in inventory when I can find one. They aren't hard to find early, but mushrooms all seem to get rarer as you drop.

Minus:
Game might be slightly easier early. This could go either way, it seems like it would smooth out the learning curve a bit for newbies, as I think it is a little more challenging afterwards.

Overall, I think it is an interesting change, and net positive. I'm curious what others think. The bug where you can lose a level from life drainers and then get your stats fixed on restore life levels needs fixed. Haven't tried to abuse it, but it has happened. Really need SI...

On unrelated notes, randarts are way way more rare pre level 30 (I know this was a bug that was fixed), and egos as well. In itself that has made the game much harder since I last played a few months ago.

The lowered selling values is big. Considering a no selling game, since most things aren't worth it now anyway. From what I hear about the size of the gold drops with no selling, I think you might end up richer in that setup now, and I have already stopped carrying anything less than ego weaponry and rings of escaping back for the money. Can you still sell items to ID?

Rods of treasure detection / rods of detection also seem much rarer. I haven't seen any this game, and only one treasure detect in the past three or four tries before dlvl thirty. Spending what money I have on stacks of scrolls at the alchemist.
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LIVE SEX

[Derakon]

Having actually played with the new system, here's how it's going for me:

* In the early game, drainers are not a huge deal because the next level is right around the corner. Given that, for the most part, early drainers were not a huge deal anyway for people who knew the game, I feel the main result here is that newbies can get introduced to the concept of stat drain without having to suffer massive consequences from it.

* In the late game, I have no sustains for my important stats (ironically, my warrior has sustained INT/WIS/CHA), so I've been carefully avoiding monsters that can drain stats. Stat potions are nowhere near common enough to rely on for restoration, and the only mushroom of vigor I've seen was in the black market. Drainers are now monsters to be avoided, because any draining will stay with me for a long time instead of until I next go back to town.

[buzzkill]

Well, Takkaria made the change, but as I understand it the basic idea is to reduce store dependency, and also solve the "scumming for restores" issue...

I fear, having not played with it yet, that it will make early stat draining inconsequential (if you're close to your next CL, don't worry about stat draining at all), and later stat draining... well that's not really a problem at all between sustains and stat potions and infrequent leveling (and prior to the change restore potions were abundant).

What bugs me is that it seems an runs an end around actually solving the greater scumming problem. If town scumming is undesirable, in the eyes of the maintainer, in this instance, then isn't town scumming in general undesirable, and if so then why not deal with that problem directly.

While I can't define it precisely, IMO it looks like change for the sake of change. After all, it is possible to continue on with mildly drained stats. It never necessitated town scumming... and dramatically drained stats, well that should be a huge hindrance, if not a player killer.

[Taha]

The following is all going from the Feb 13 nightly to the Feb 20 nightly on OS X 10.6.

I get the following error on loading my file: "Parse error in /mypath/taha.prf line 475 column 1: P: undefined directive". The game loads, but the keypad doesn't work for motion - arrows do, as do number keys on the top of the keyboard. Interact with macros shows only options a-e, all relating to keymaps. All my macros are missing. Tried suiciding character and restarting, same issues.

Starting a new fresh character doesn't get the error, but the keypad still doesn't work. No way to interact with macros there either.

The savefile broken issue was going backwards, not forwards. Opening the modified file with the slightly older nightly gave an error about a corrupted save file. The funny part was the error: "Savefile too old. Try importing it into an older Angband first."

The old character and a new one and my prf file is attached.
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California Dispensary

[d_m]

Will test again this evening and let you know / upload files. It was on OS X, so it could be system specific.

In Fizzix's case we have determined that saves from 3.2.0 work fine in the current nightlies, but there was a short period where it seems like savefiles were being saved in a way which causes problems with the current nightly.

[Taha]

Will test again this evening and let you know / upload files. It was on OS X, so it could be system specific.
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Colorado Medical Marijuana Dispensaries

[takkaria]

Latest nightly (feb 20) won't allow me to move with the keypad, and gives some parse error on loading my preference file. It also changed (corrupted?) my savefile so no older version can open it.

I upgraded on death, and have a backup of my hard drive to restore the monster memory, so back to the old version with no huge loss.

The Feb 20 nightly removes macros and rewrites the keymap code, to the point where you will have to redo your keymap pref files. If you use a clean game, does the keypad still not work?

[d_m]

Anyway, the current solution will probably make my games less annoying, and it is certainly worth an experiment. I've been waiting for the next massive transfer from staging before I upgrade, so I haven't tried it yet.

Yeah, I would hold off. Taha hit a save/pref file problem that we are still trying to resolve. I will post here when the push is made and things seem likely to work well.

[PowerDiver]

The reason I described it like that was because Takkaria considered timed drains, and rejected them on the assumption that it really only hurt players interested in turn count. This was an attempt to get some of the benefits of timed drains without that problem.

IMO the obvious answer is to make each restore potion common, say 70% likely to drop on any level after you start encountering drainers. Then if you are willing to devote a precious slot, you recover immediately, and otherwise you will get the restore in not too much gameplay. How's that for a "non-timed timed" effect? And if you are unlucky, a store service in town can act as a safety net.

The need for this change is yet another symptom of attacking TMJ as a generation problem, rather than as the ID-and-squelch problem which is the real TMJ issue IMO.

Anyway, the current solution will probably make my games less annoying, and it is certainly worth an experiment. I've been waiting for the next massive transfer from staging before I upgrade, so I haven't tried it yet.

[d_m]

A reasonable definition of timed is something that it goes away with resting, so there's no way I can wrap my brain around that contortion. There's no need to think of it as anything but the strange thing it is. Who knows? It may be brilliant. We shall see.

The reason I described it like that was because Takkaria considered timed drains, and rejected them on the assumption that it really only hurt players interested in turn count. This was an attempt to get some of the benefits of timed drains without that problem.

In my serious id_by_use games, restore potions are a real pain. I have to keep track of which restores remain to be learned, and try to keep those stats drained by 1. This change will stop me from searching out rot jellies and taking off all my armor so they can hit me.

Hope you enjoy it then!

[PowerDiver]

If you want, you can think about it like a "timed stat drain" but one where you can't just Rest for 1000 turns to make it go away.

A reasonable definition of timed is something that it goes away with resting, so there's no way I can wrap my brain around that contortion. There's no need to think of it as anything but the strange thing it is. Who knows? It may be brilliant. We shall see.

In my serious id_by_use games, restore potions are a real pain. I have to keep track of which restores remain to be learned, and try to keep those stats drained by 1. This change will stop me from searching out rot jellies and taking off all my armor so they can hit me.