Item generation suggestion

[miyazaki]

We've been over the store inventories issue so many times, it's just a case of waiting to see what Takk decides. Personally I hope he favours fixed inventories with escalating prices (i.e. supply is infinite but each one costs more than the last), but YMMV ....

Yeah, I know. It just comes up often in the course of other discussions. A lot of other changes depend on store inventory issues and we need to understand those changes in the context of store issues.

(And being an avid non-programmer, I have to contribute somehow...)

[Tiburon Silverflame]

I don't like infinite supply because it can be abused, or if you prefer, if there is any way to abuse any particular store item, this would do that. If the stores restock to baseline every 10K turns, it also encourages trips that take at least that long. If 10K game turns is too many, then maybe 5K. Or maybe it's 5K turns after you enter the dungeon, rather than a strict schedule.

I don't like even a fairly large (like, say, 500) fixed supply that has to last the game, because different classes have significantly different needs for any specific potion. Paladin and priest don't get a decent Phase Door until Ethereal Openings...but don't too much care about *Healing* or Life potions. And so on.

How about this. The store has a resetting fixed stock...say, 10 CCWs. If you want more, you can get them, but you pay BM prices. You have some of the features of price escalation and infinite supply, while letting reasonable use rates be handled fairly simply.

There's also the secondary issue of scrolls of Word of Recall, unless you plan to sell the rod in the magic shop.

I'm not sure what you mean here...not sure how the second part connects to the first, in the context of a 'secondary issue' especially....

[Derakon]

You could escalate the price as the player buys more, and then slowly decrease the price as time passes. Then there's a practical limit on how many you can buy that's dictated by your money supply, but generally there'll be more available if you wait. Only problem here is that it encourages selling things to stores.

What I meant in reference to Word of Recall is that if there's a limited supply of WoR scrolls, then the player could easily find themselves out with no way to get more short of looking for them in the dungeon. Selling rods would alleviate this by providing a source of recall that can't be used up or destroyed (while in inventory, anyway), only stolen.

[Magnate]

You could escalate the price as the player buys more, and then slowly decrease the price as time passes. Then there's a practical limit on how many you can buy that's dictated by your money supply, but generally there'll be more available if you wait. Only problem here is that it encourages selling things to stores.

Not if you simply disallow selling (and increase gold drops to compensate, per Eddie). I forgot to mention that I hope Takk implements this, above all else.

[Atarlost]

Most items, though, have no purpose for existing besides sale to the shops. Most ego items, many artifacts, and every dungeon book after the first of each kind are useless. Depending on the players class all spellbooks, prayerbooks, most devices, and/or all unblessed sharp weapons may also be useless. The sole reason for most items to be generated at all is so the player can sell them.

[PowerDiver]

The sole reason for most items to be generated at all is so the player can sell them.

The main reason that items are generated is so that you don't know whether that item you detected is one of the 100 or so you will want to wield in a game until you identify or test it. The secondary reason that to generate lots of items is so that one can look for something particular to an individual playstyle that most others might not use.

[Magnate]

Most items, though, have no purpose for existing besides sale to the shops. Most ego items, many artifacts, and every dungeon book after the first of each kind are useless. Depending on the players class all spellbooks, prayerbooks, most devices, and/or all unblessed sharp weapons may also be useless. The sole reason for most items to be generated at all is so the player can sell them.

This is so totally, utterly wrong I don't know where to start. Selling items is a *by-product* of their lack of use to that particular character, it is not the reason for their creation.

[Nick]

Items are the objects of the Angband world. They need no purpose other than their existence. Even the most aggressive diver needs to smell the flowers occasionally.

/me makes note to put flowers in FAangband.

[d_m]

/me makes note to put flowers in FAangband.

Pretty Yellow Flowers (',')/(','): [(r)ecall, ESC]
They have slain 5 of your ancestors, who remain unavenged.
The yellow flowers are pretty, distractingly so. They call out to you
to relax, lie down, and take a nap.
This creature is normally found at depths of 1000 feet (level 20), and
moves at normal speed, but does not deign to chase intruders.
A kill of this creature is worth 2000 points for a 1st level character.
It is not detected by telepathy. It may cast spells which blind,
paralyze, or confuse; about 1 time in 1. Nothing is known about its
attack.

[Sirridan]

Pretty Yellow Flowers (',')/(','): [(r)ecall, ESC]
They have slain 5 of your ancestors, who remain unavenged.
The yellow flowers are pretty, distractingly so. They call out to you
to relax, lie down, and take a nap.
This creature is normally found at depths of 1000 feet (level 20), and
moves at normal speed, but does not deign to chase intruders.
A kill of this creature is worth 2000 points for a 1st level character.
It is not detected by telepathy. It may cast spells which blind,
paralyze, or confuse; about 1 time in 1. Nothing is known about its
attack.

And Mother's day was never the same again.

[fizzix]

This is so totally, utterly wrong I don't know where to start. Selling items is a *by-product* of their lack of use to that particular character, it is not the reason for their creation.

As far as I can tell a rod of curing exists for no other purpose but to sell it. I can't think of any other item that fits that bill though.

[Sirridan]

As far as I can tell a rod of curing exists for no other purpose but to sell it. I can't think of any other item that fits that bill though.

the following DSM's: Red/White/Blue/Black, Pseudo, Gold.

And Rod's of Probing :P

EDIT: I'm sure some folks may want to use those items, but usually when they show up, you have better, or the weight and fail rate on the breath makes it useless.

Also probing is useless, wasting a turn to find out monster hp would be better suited to attacking said monster (or avoiding it). This is especially true when you know how tough monsters are from experience and/or spoilers.

[d_m]

Also probing is useless, wasting a turn to find out monster hp would be better suited to attacking said monster (or avoiding it). This is especially true when you know how tough monsters are from experience and/or spoilers.

I completely disagree, particularly with high stealth characters. I think determining stuff about a sleeping monster or unique that you may not have complete monster memory for is great. The fact that you retain monster memory between characters only makes it better.

Learning what kind of drops you can expect, as well as what kinds of spells or attacks the monster can do, is crucial for deciding whether a fight is safe enough and worth it.

[Sirridan]

I completely disagree, particularly with high stealth characters. I think determining stuff about a sleeping monster or unique that you may not have complete monster memory for is great. The fact that you retain monster memory between characters only makes it better.

Learning what kind of drops you can expect, as well as what kinds of spells or attacks the monster can do, is crucial for deciding whether a fight is safe enough and worth it.

I guess that's true, so yeah I'd give you that. I'm personally comfortable enough with the monster list to not need it. Shouldn't let that deny others the opportunity to learn though, my bad.

I still stand against -curing and low DSM's though. They could be made better instead of removed though, maybe add a lower fail rate and some healing to -curing, and maybe make the weaker DSM's lower weight/AC?

Maybe a new thread for DSM's sometime later?

[Derakon]

We've had a few threads get derailed by discussing how to improve DSMs. There's a number of fairly obvious possibilities; personally I favor reducing the recharge time on their activations drastically.

DSMs are still useful if you find them way out of depth, though. Rods of Curing don't have that distinction IMO.