Curses

[Nick]

For a while I've been saying I'm going to revamp curses in FAangband, with the level of detail I give being roughly "remove sticky curses and add more interesting curses". So now I think I have a slightly more fleshed out scheme, and would like to hear opinions.

1. "Cursed" no longer (necessarily) means "can't be taken off". It can mean a range of things, including
   1. Random teleportation
   2. Aggravation
   3. Experience drain
   4. Random poisoning
   5. Occasional summoning
   6. Induce fear
   7. Random hallucinations
   8. Occasionally drops from the player's hand
   9. Can't be unwielded (this is now nasty, and would have to be used with care)
   10. ...and others
2. Remove Curse and *Remove Curse* still exist, but act differently:
   1. It asks for an item.
   2. The item can be in any of the usual places - equipment, inventory, floor.
   3. For any cursed item, the player can attempt once to uncurse it; if this attempt fails, it is cursed for good.
   4. Obviously, *RC* has a better chance than RC; also player level/INT/WIS/class/something, and item depth/value/whatever will probably be factors.
3. Priests may get an early Detect Curse spell, which would at least tell if an item is cursed, and maybe identify the curse.
4. Pseudo-id could work a number of ways:
   1. Cursed items Pseudo as {cursed}
   2. Cursed items with some good properties pseudo as {tainted}, without as {cursed}
   3. Cursed items pseudo as {good, cursed}, {average, cursed} etc.

Opinions keenly anticipated.

PS Also note that

1. I found some neat features of lists in vBulletin.

[PaulBlay]

[*]For any cursed item, the player can attempt once to uncurse it; if this attempt fails, it is cursed for good.

I would suggest a few changes on that point.
- May attempt to remove curse once only with 'remove curse' then once more with *Remove Curse*. This makes sense as *Remove Curse* should be able to get curses that the weaker version can't.
- It should be possible (although not necessarily easy) to destroy non-artifact cursed items.
- I would suggest that 'can't be unwielded' on artifacts should be limited to tainted ones that have some major pluses (because it would just suck too much to be permanently stuck with an artifact that isn't at least semi-decent).

[buzzkill]

[*]"Cursed" no longer (necessarily) means "can't be taken off". It can mean a range of things, including

... you could always add (speed -xx) to this list! and/or making some cursed items unusually heavy (items of burden).

... add "without notification" to "Occasionally drops from the player's hand"

... and/or denial of self induced teleportation/phase (also nasty).

Off the top of my head, given some time I'll come up with more.

[PaulBlay]

... add "without notification" to "Occasionally drops from the player's hand"

That made me think of a nice combination curse.

You wield the Longsword (5d5).
It welds itself to your hand!
You cannot unwield your Longsword (5d5) {cursed} x 10.
Destroy what item? You try to destroy your Longsword (5d5) {cursed}, but it cannot be done.
Your Longsword (5d5) {cursed} slips from your hand.


Cannot be unwielded.
PLUS
Occasionally drops from the player's hand.

[Narvius]

What about hardly detectible curses? Like, you can't pseudo them?

[Donald Jonker]

For a while I've been saying I'm going to revamp curses in FAangband, with the level of detail I give being roughly "remove sticky curses and add more interesting curses". So now I think I have a slightly more fleshed out scheme, and would like to hear opinions.

I think this plan is fantastic, particularly the 1-shot (or maybe 2-shot) remove curse. Would force some interesting trade-offs. I'd be careful about keeping sticky curses though. Use-id with these sounds like it could be fun - which would be spoiled by common permacursed items ending your game. A typo would also be tragic: all in all, probably not worth it.

I look forward to seeing this kind of thing make it to Vanilla.

[Nick]

- May attempt to remove curse once only with 'remove curse' then once more with *Remove Curse*. This makes sense as *Remove Curse* should be able to get curses that the weaker version can't.

I'd prefer not to. It's an interesting decision - do I try to uncurse this now, or wait until I'm more likely to succeed?

- It should be possible (although not necessarily easy) to destroy non-artifact cursed items.
- I would suggest that 'can't be unwielded' on artifacts should be limited to tainted ones that have some major pluses (because it would just suck too much to be permanently stuck with an artifact that isn't at least semi-decent).

OK, here's a plan. If you are wielding a sticky curse item where you've had one try at removing it, a second try (maybe only with *RC*) will destroy it, artifact or not. And maybe hurt you.

I'm not planning for a negative resist or pval to be a curse - an item like that stays like that.

Hard-to-detect curses I think would just be annoying, and not in a good way. Actually, I'm wondering if curses should pseudo at all - finding out might be half the fun.

No teleport is an excellent one. Some more from my list are random stat drain, reduced regeneration, increased appetite, random cuts. Also, distinct from regular aggravate, occasional aggravate level effect

[PaulBlay]

OK, here's a plan. If you are wielding a sticky curse item where you've had one try at removing it, a second try (maybe only with *RC*) will destroy it, artifact or not. And maybe hurt you.

That sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

[Psi]

Are you going to make id rarer again? Curses only really effect stuff if you are trying to encourage wield testing.

[Nick]

Are you going to make id rarer again? Curses only really effect stuff if you are trying to encourage wield testing.

Thanks for asking the hard question. Really.

I don't know. Maybe I'll introduce a second level of ID again

Actually, Detect Curse, as a fairly early prayer, and a scroll about the rarity *ID* used to be. ID just tells you "It is cursed", and you have to further analyse it to find out what the curse (or curses!) is, whether by ?DC or by testing.

And I'm not even thinking about squelch yet.

[pav]

Nick, I think you forgot DG_CURSE, otherwise you went full ToME madhouse here

For more insane ideas, check out http://wiki.t-o-m-e.net/Spoilers/Curses

[Magnate]

Well done Nick - I've been meaning to revise curses for randarts for a long time too so thanks in advance! This is a great leap forward. My only real issue is with aggravation - how many dumps have you ever seen where the player is wearing an item with aggravate? IMO it makes almost any item unusable about 99% of the time (the last 1% being endgame items like Deathwreaker/Doomcaller). So I'd suggest two things: either make aggravate weaker (either by making it intermittent, or by just making it a penalty to stealth, rather than cancelling stealth) ... or by making sure it only appears on godly item (e.g. +3 might/blows/shots).

All the other ideas I like (you could extend negative regen into hp drain and/or mana drain ...) - except dropping from hand without notification - it would just be too irritating to check your equipment every turn. By all means let it drop, but not without notification. You could even have severities of curse, with more/less frequent teleports, poisonings, hallucinations or fear.

No useful views on IDing, squelching or otherwise implementing - sorry.

Good luck,

CC

[Nick]

Nick, I think you forgot DG_CURSE, otherwise you went full ToME madhouse here

Yes, I did tick a few of those boxes, didn't I. I hadn't thought of ToME, but had been through the Steamband mutations.

There are a few more minor points, too:

• First attempt at removing the curse tries as outlined, and records the fact that you've tried. Second time, there is a large chance (75%?) of the item blowing up in your face; then, it reverts to first chance behaviour, so may succeed and may fail. Subsequent attempts behave the same until it is uncursed or destroyed.
• Items could potentially have more than one curse (although I think this would be rare). In this case, an attempt at removal would (I think) attempt each curse in turn. Different curses would probably vary in difficulty of removal.
• Detect Curse reveals all the curses an item has. They also reveal themselves - so the first time the player is affected (random cut, fail to teleport, etc) the player then knows about that curse on that item.
• Remove Curse only removes known curses.

[Nick]

My only real issue is with aggravation - how many dumps have you ever seen where the player is wearing an item with aggravate? IMO it makes almost any item unusable about 99% of the time (the last 1% being endgame items like Deathwreaker/Doomcaller). So I'd suggest two things: either make aggravate weaker (either by making it intermittent, or by just making it a penalty to stealth, rather than cancelling stealth) ... or by making sure it only appears on godly item (e.g. +3 might/blows/shots).

Well, it would be removable, if you're lucky. And the intention is that the better the item, the greater the dilemma for the player - do I try to remove the curse now, or wait until I have *RC*? (Or get better at it - what do people think about making removal chance dependent on player attributes?)

I am also thinking of two types of aggravate. The first is like the current aggro on gear - everything nearby always wakes up. The second one will be mostly dormant, but occasionally everyone nearby (or maybe everyone on the level) wakes, and some monsters (in los, or nearby, or even randomly on the level, or some combination of these) are hasted.

All the other ideas I like (you could extend negative regen into hp drain and/or mana drain ...)

Nasty!

except dropping from hand without notification - it would just be too irritating to check your equipment every turn. By all means let it drop, but not without notification.

Agreed. The idea is to make gameplay more interesting.

You could even have severities of curse, with more/less frequent teleports, poisonings, hallucinations or fear.

Yes, although I'm planning to do these by flags rather than values, so that would mean two or three levels of severity rather than a continuum.

[buzzkill]

... except dropping from hand without notification - it would just be too irritating to check your equipment every turn....

I felt that this (dropping from your hand with notification) would offer nothing to game play but annoyance. The annoyance of having to pick up and wield the weapon again every once in a while. The odds of finding yourself in combat, unarmed, is nil. That's why I proposed without notification. You wouldn't have to check your equipment every turn. You would have to pay attention, to see if a longsword suddenly appears on the ground as you walk or (uh-oh) run. Perhaps a message only if the longsword disappears from view in rubble or trees. At least, this way, you may suddenly find yourself 'punching' the ancient red dragon. That is the point isn't it? It could be entirely circumvented by keeping the longsword in your pack until you really need it.

Since I don't expect the above proposal to be accepted, let me suggest having the weapon drop from your hand only with use (during combat, with notification), or maybe a 'fumble' curse that would cause there to be a chance of any item you are using dropping from your hands.

> You are blind. You are confused.
> You failed to use the staff properly.
> You suddenly feel very clumsy. The Staff of Teleportation falls from your hands.
> ...

Can you pick up items when you are blind? Should you be able to?

More curse ideas...
of Fury. Enemies gain a bit of speed with every successful hit.
of Wonder. Upon hit, random, mostly negative effects, similar to wand.
of Illusion. An illusionary clone appears upon successful hit. Illusionary monsters move but don't attack. They are dispelled upon death of target, or taking any damage.