Competition 138

[OOD Town drunk]

Not sure if the complete buyout still works with the guaranteed 40 !clw; I strongly suspect that it doesnt. The effect of buying out +0 weapons would typically reduce the inventory from some 60 items by 5, which doesnt look like it would yield a noticable amount of extra ccw.

That is something I hadn't considered. Those were tactics that I've utilized successfully in 3.4.1 and before. As far as 3.5; I have no idea yet

[fizzix]

I am not sure if low amount of heals makes for a more interesting game or not, but the workarounds feel a bit artificial. Maybe for that reason it would be a good idea to increase the supply.

Before the comp character I had been playing a lot of "no shopping" games. I found that I needed to be a bit conservative with usage, but if I was, I would find enough !CCW in the dungeon. The sadistic part of me wants !CCW to be a dungeon item, and the coddling part of me wants to ensure larger stocks in town. I have no idea what makes the best approach.

[Raajaton]

Lately in my 3.5-dev no_shopping games I haven't really felt a lack of !CCW until towards the end of the game. For most of the mid game I seem to be able to last mostly on what I find in the dungeon, but later in the game I find myself chugging them much more frequently to stay topped off when big boy damage dealers are around so I can avoid having to waste precious Healing or *Healing* pots. Generally by that point though I have enough money to buy out the shops to restock if necessary if I need more.

[Derakon]

For what it's worth, I was finding plenty of Healing potions for use in big fights and had built up a decent stockpile of *Healing* and Life in my house despite the fact that I was diving aggressively and not clearing many levels.

[Raajaton]

My current competition characters have definitely been feeling the lack of early game infravision. I've never played a Dunadan or Human before, so I've never been without it. That coupled with some bad luck and silly plays has resulted in several dead characters so far that haven't even been worthy of a ladder post.

[OOD Town drunk]

My current competition characters have definitely been feeling the lack of early game infravision. I've never played a Dunadan or Human before, so I've never been without it. That coupled with some bad luck and silly plays has resulted in several dead characters so far that haven't even been worthy of a ladder post.

You know what? While I realize that maybe it makes me a pussy or whatever, but I almost always use the High-Elf, so I suppose I have never had to deal without infravision either. Which leads me to wonder if infravision is useful, because I had always assumed that it was rather useless, but then again, I am not too sure what it would be like without! haha Until I read this post I hadn't given it any thought. I would just auto-squelch potions of infravision

[takkaria]

Not sure if the complete buyout still works with the guaranteed 40 !clw; I strongly suspect that it doesnt. The effect of buying out +0 weapons would typically reduce the inventory from some 60 items by 5, which doesnt look like it would yield a noticable amount of extra ccw.

The only thing that counts for stocking purposes is that a slot is used, not the total number of items, so buying out +0 weapons would open up space for more inventory to be added.

And in 3.5-dev, the buyout trick doesn't work in shops where there are infinite stacks of stuff.

[Derakon]

There's a number of things that make this character challenging right from the start:

1) Lack of daggers/whips in the stores. The best weapon you can buy DPS-wise is a 1d6 spear, which isn't very good (average 9.1 damage/round).
2) Even when you do find a lightweight weapon, you can't get that many blows with it (generally about 2.5), so her melee offense merely comes up to "acceptable".
3) Paladins have terrible missile and device skills, which in combination with the above makes killing things a trial.
4) Her stealth is lousy. Enemies will be swarming you pretty much as soon as you enter the level.
5) Monsters don't flee properly. In previous versions when a monster got terrified you got at least a free turn while they tried to run and possibly a breather from the entire fight; now they just keep attacking you. This is a bug that will be fixed once we figure out what's causing it.
6) Monster groups seem excessively large. In particular, you'll commonly encounter a dozen cutpurses or novice mages at 100', when in prior versions that's when you'd start seeing single versions of those enemies.

EDIT: regarding infravision, while it's mostly useful for seeing warm-blooded but otherwise-invisible monsters, it can also save your bacon if you e.g. enter a room that happens to have a group of zephyr hounds just outside your light radius. Infravision will show you those hounds immediately, while any other method of detection (aside from telepathy) will take at least 1 turn, giving those hounds ample opportunity to mess you up. But you really need a lot of infravision for that (at least +5, I would say), which is unlikely to be achievable with the competition character.

[OOD Town drunk]

There's a number of things that make this character challenging right from the start:

1) Lack of daggers/whips in the stores. The best weapon you can buy DPS-wise is a 1d6 spear, which isn't very good (average 9.1 damage/round).

Did anybody else have trouble finding a missile weapon? I didn't find even an average sling until like dlvl 12 or so

[Estie]

Before the comp character I had been playing a lot of "no shopping" games. I found that I needed to be a bit conservative with usage, but if I was, I would find enough !CCW in the dungeon. The sadistic part of me wants !CCW to be a dungeon item, and the coddling part of me wants to ensure larger stocks in town. I have no idea what makes the best approach.

Unless my games give misleading data, the reason for shortage of !ccw is me skipping boring levels instead of exploring every nook and cranny the way I do in ironman mode. Increase temple stock to encourage diving, dungeon supply to discourage same.

My second warrior is now lvl 30 and approaching the point where 1st one had severe shortage; I´ll report back with more data shortly (if he survives...).

[OOD Town drunk]

Unless my games give misleading data, the reason for shortage of !ccw is me skipping boring levels instead of exploring every nook and cranny the way I do in ironman mode. Increase temple stock to encourage diving, dungeon supply to discourage same.

My second warrior is now lvl 30 and approaching the point where 1st one had severe shortage; I´ll report back with more data shortly (if he survives...).

Hmmm.. It would seem to have potential as a possible birth option, no?
Something like:
Stores permanently stock useful items (birth_force_stock)
if you were to apply it to things like !CCW and ?WoR

[fizzix]

Unless my games give misleading data, the reason for shortage of !ccw is me skipping boring levels instead of exploring every nook and cranny the way I do in ironman mode. Increase temple stock to encourage diving, dungeon supply to discourage same.

My second warrior is now lvl 30 and approaching the point where 1st one had severe shortage; I´ll report back with more data shortly (if he survives...).

Yeah, I'm guessing a lot depends on play style. I generally go out of my way when diving to kill monsters that have drops. orcs, trolls, ogres, humans, and dragons. Certainly someone who explores less or more than me will have a different feel.

[bron]

you only need 1/2 as many ?Recall. (Just take the stairs for the trip down.)

In a sad comment on my observational skills, I've only just now realized that the "forced descent" option seems to cause you to drop a level every time you return to the dungeon. So taking the stairs down from the town level causes you to appear one level deeper than the level you Recall'ed from. It also appears that using a Recall scroll from the town does the same thing (you don't go to the level you came from, but rather to the next one deeper). This is an interesting mechanic, that makes town scumming a lot more dangerous. I kinda like it; I just wish I'd realized it sooner.

A question: does Alter Reality also force you deeper? (I realize this isn't an issue in the current competition; just curious.)

[fizzix]

A question: does Alter Reality also force you deeper? (I realize this isn't an issue in the current competition; just curious.)

No, Alter Reality doesn't do that. Honest players that want the challenge can just choose not to cast it, like in ironman.

[Estie]

Alas, the warrior died again, to Feagwath. But managed to make do with the !ccw offered this game. However, had a long period of time where he was leveldrained and couldnt get restore. Only 1-2 stocking in town, is that intended ?