Complete N00b's Journey Character #2: Nedandon, the High Elf Priest

[wizard44]

Introduction: This is the second character in progress in the series called the "Complete N00b'™s Journey€", where I attempt to see how far I get each time despite my n00bish mistakes. This character, whose name is Nedandon and is a High Elf Priest, has made it back to the town after his first dive after running out of flasks of oil, so I am now starting a thread for this character as a celebration and to track his further progress. In this series that I am starting, the number before the hyphen signifies the attempt that I am playing, and the number after the hyphen signifies the goal that I have finished. With that, I bring you:

Complete N00b'€™s Journey: Part 2-1

Started this character off by buying 4 scrolls of Phase Door, a potion of Cure Light Wounds, and 3 flasks of oil to use on the nearest unique. Used one flask of oil on D:1 to take out a grey mold guarding a stack of potions of cure light wounds. Hit level 2 soon enough and learned the Bless pray, which really helped even out the score. D:1 had a hard leather cap of wisdom [2,+7] <+1>, which was an excellent find IMO for the first level. The initial quaff-id gave me knowledge of potions of boldness, neutralize poison, speed, and heroism. After clearing the level, I also began my scroll-read regime, which allowed me to identify scrolls of treasure detection, light, and detect invisible. When I went to D:2, I reached level 3 without too much problems and learned the cure light wounds prayer. A cutpurse and apprentice ambush, however, forced me to use a scroll of Phase Door to escape to heal up with a potion of cure light wounds. Some cutpurses on D:2 forced me to heal up again to deal with them, but I was able to survive and get to level 4 without any problems. Decided to take the downstairs to D:3 in order to try to speed up my character. My quaff-id regime identified potions of slowness and infravision. Found a wicker shield on D:3 to improve my AC. Found a downstairs also rather quickly, and again made the decision to immediately descend to D:4 to try to speed up my leveling.

Upon going to that level, I went to D:4 where I saw a healer. After blessing myself, I killed the healer to get to level 5 and learned the Call light prayer to the RNG’s mercy, meaning that I didn’t have to learn the Slow Poison prayer and waste a future prayer slot. I was immediately subject to a tense moment with a creeping silver coins that forced to use a scroll of phase door, 2 potions of cure light wounds, and my sole potion of neutralize poison to resolve the situation. I also found a gold-plated wand, which I used on a clear worm mass to identify it as a Wand of Magic Missile. The wand was of great help to dispatch a large kobold to get to level 6. D:4 was also the place where I found Fang, Farmer maggot’s dog. Being an early unique in my mind, this was a case for me to throw my flasks of oil and attempt to dispatch it. After throwing my flasks of oil, I managed to kill Fang with a few blows of my mace after blessing myself. However, I ran into Smeagol almost immediately afterwards, and seeing that my wand of magic missile wasn’t doing jack squat to it, I used scrolls of phase door to get the hell away from the guy. Soon enough, Grip, Farmer Maggot’s Dog was here in the level for revenge. After using my last flask of oil, some scrolls of phase door, and quite a few charges from my wand of magic missile, I killed Grip and decided to take the next down-stairs to lose Smeagol for now. Upon landing on D:5, I read-id’s scrolls of Satisfy Hunger and Blessing, as well as quaff-id’s a potion of True Seeing. Discovering all of those items took me to level 7. I actually regenerated D:5 due to level feelings that the level was just filled with junk. In that level, I took out a whole heap of cave spiders after using up all of my Cure Light Wounds potions and a Cure Serious Wounds potions. For my troubles I did get a War Hammer that increased my damage output. After dispatching a hill orc with the last of my wand of magic missile charges and getting my lantern from the level, I finally decided to Recall back to town, since I did not have a reliable way to deal ranged damage and I was up against a large kobold. I dropped 3 out of the 5 holy books of prayers, 2 potions of boldness, a potion of slowness, a cloak, my torches and my starting mace back at my home. I then proceeded to buy 6 flasks of oil, 3 scrolls of Word of Recall, 4 additional Scrolls of Phase Door, A holy book of Prayers [Chants and Blessings], and an additional potion of Cure Serious Wounds. All of that shopping left me with 475 gold left, which I can buy to cover other bases that my character is lacking in.

The next goal that my character will try to achieve is to survive until one of the two things happen:
1. I run out of healing potions, scrolls of Phase Door, or Flasks of oil (and attack wand charges).
2. I reach character level 18. I will only go up to D:14 to do this, for safety reasons. So my questions to you all is this:

Which items should I buy with my remaining gold: A wand of magic missile, a scroll of recharging to charge up my existing wand, or some more healing potions (light or critical)? There are NO missile weapons for sale at the armory or any other store, so I’m out of luck there.
I’m saving all of my unused prayers until level 9, since I heard Orb of Draining is a staple prayer that should be learned as soon as I hit that character level?
Which monsters should I target for leveling up? And which ones should I avoid as a priest?

The below link is the current status of Nedandon:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=22365

Any answer to the above questions and other tips would be appreciated.

[wobbly]

I'd buy a !ccw if you haven't seen 1 just to id it. The !clw are good enough for blindness and while they don't cure confusion they seem to reduce it enough turns to effectively be cure confusion.

As for what to kill orbs do double damage against evil. If you don't have full monster lore you'll have to go by what shows up by detect evil. Also target stuff that sounds like a rogue as they'll drop ?phase.

Big thing to avoid early with priests are mobs of large cats. However they are always awake and you can't detect them. If you see more then you can handle it might be best to start recallinng before you are in trouble. Also a ?deep descent can take you off the level in an emergency.

Whoops: (!) potion (c)ure (c)ritical (w)ounds if the abbreviation wasn't clear

[Sphara]

My shopping list would include: several !clw, a soft leather armor or at least a robe and some boots. There are often rings of protection in shop 6 but those might cost a bit too much atm. Phase doors you never have enough as a priest. Doesn't go wrong if you buy more of those.

[Grotug]

I usually carry 20+ ?phase doors on my second descent into the dungeon. I've died many times from running out of them. But I play pretty recklessly

I agree about buying !Cure Critical Wound and going after evil critters. Not sure if you're playing with tiles or ascii, but if ascii avoid all j's except blue ones are pretty harmless and black ones drop stuff. White ones poison, but aren't as dangerous/problematic as most other j's. Avoid green creeping coins like the plague. Most non unique h's and p's are good targets (dark elven dwarves are pretty dangerous [they're the most dangerous early h])--not sure their native depth). Beware the stegocentipede as it's fast and will kill ya quick if you're not ready for him. Water and air hounds (gray Zs and green Zs) are bad news, as are mirkwood spiders (green S). Tan X (Umber Hulk) will bee line to you through rock and kill you (he's native to like DL14 or so). Escape him or die. Yes, some of the cats and tigers are also pretty vicious. You're lucky that you see invisible as a High Elf which will mean some of the Ghosts that can be kinda terrifying won't pose so much trouble to you. Hummerhorns (Yellow I's) They're a death sentence if you don't have a staff of teleportation as they multiply extremely quickly and confuse. Orange hydras (M) are pretty scary and fast and are also eager to kill you. Bolg and Azog (especially Azog) are both dangerous at their depths; they are native to around DL21 and DL23 and often show up together.

Most of these threats I've mentioned show up after DL14. It's hard for me to really know what is dangerous before DL14 because I play HT Warrior and he just crushes everything below that depth with ease.

[wizard44]

Alright folks, this character has reached condition #2, which means it’s time for me to post the next part of Nedandon's journey.

Complete N00b’s Journey: Part 2-2

Bought 10 potions of Cure Light Wounds and a Soft Leather Armour [8, +3] as per Sphara's advice. Also bought 5 more flasks of Oil to cover my ranged attack weaknesses. I then proceeded to dive down to D:5 without using recall in order to preserve my supplies and try to find some items to cover my weaknesses, namely a missile weapon. In D:2, I managed to get a sling to cover my bases, but the lantern that I was equipping turned out to have a hallucination curse, which necessitated my ascent back up the stairs to get the curse removed. On my way back up, I quaff-id’d potions of poison and sleep and got some Iron-Shod Boots [4, +6], and a set of Leather Gloves [1, +0]. In my second dive, I found the Dagger of Rilia (2d4) (+14,+13), a short bow (+10, +14), and a better cloak. I also read-id’d scrolls of darkness and found a staff of Cure Light Wounds in D:5. D:5 was where I encountered bullroarer the Hobbit, It took a lot of iron shots and flasks of oil to put Bullroarer down. Before I left D:5, I found a wand of Stinking Cloud and a wand of light, that provided an OK substitute for ranged attacks, as well as some arrows for the short Bow. Upon reaching D:6, I reached level 9, where I proceeded to learn Neutralize poison, Orb of Draining, and Cure Critical Wounds. I quickly found stairs to D:7 and immediately took them in order to speed up the descent, where I also found downstairs to D:8 and immediately descended for the same reason. D:8 was host to a hold monster wand and some scrolls of magic mapping that I read-id'd. Upon descending to D:9, I saw that the place was murderous, so I stairdanced to get a better D:9, which put me face to face with a bloodshot eye and an hill orc pack. This was absolutely a case to use my wand of stinking cloud, and I used it to great effect to weaken the pack before killing them in melee. I also equip-id my short bow, which was of the Nazgul, so I dropped it in favor of a Short Bow of Power that I found on that level. I also reached level 10, and continued my power diving up until D:11, where I found a Long bow (+0, +0,), which still wasn't as powerful as my short bow of power, and an Amulet of infravision <+2>. This was also the place where I encountered Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman, who went down through the use of my wand of holding and my Short Bow of Power coupled with (+4,+3) arrows. Upon killing Wormtongue, I got hold of a Mace that he dropped, which sped up my regeneration, improved my stealth by 4, and consistently dealt more damage than my war hammer, which I dropped from the level, as well as my soft leather armour in favor of a Studded Leather Armour [12, +1]. I also quaff-id a potion of Berserk Strength, and detected the presence of Mugash the Kobold Lord, with my Detect Evil Spell. Mugash also went down to enchanted arrow power, but failed to drop anything useful. I then went to D:12, where I reached level 12 and learned the prayers of Earthquake and Protection from Evil, as well as found rings of the dog (which I dropped), a ring of Reckless Attacks, and books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom]. I did also get hit by a summoned green naga spit, which weakened my Studded Leather Armour and made me discover that my Wormtongue Mace was weatherproof. Upon descent to D:13, I had a close call with creeping mithril coins, and did some shooting and scooting to eliminate it. Because this was a 7-3 in terms of level feelings, I took the first downstairs staircase, since I got to clvl 13 from the fight and learned the Sense surroundings prayer.

Upon descent to D:14, I found the long sword ‘Elvagil’ and discovered that my mace also had the free action rune upon a battle with an illusionist. I also quaff-id’d some potions of Cure Critical Wounds and Restore Mana, which were a BIG help for me in surviving. Some battles with a gnome mage also indicated that it was a my mace provides resistance to cold. That battle with gnome mages also prompted me to read lots of scrolls of phase door and a potion of speed to escape the onslaught. I stopped to pick up and use-id a staff of curing on the escape out from the mages. After resting, I carefully went back to deal with the mages, and ended up using my staff of Cure Light Wounds and all my potions of Cure Light Wounds to deal with them and their summoned buddies. I also found an Amulet of Resist Acid in my dance to avoid the a creeping coins of silver. Having run out of ranged attacks, and potions of Cure Serious Wounds, I barely managed to kill Lagduf, the Snaga while evading a green baby dragon. After resting a bit, I went back to kill the baby green dragon, and acquired a staff of summoning and a scroll of teleportation through use-id. I also ended up getting to level 16 after clearing the D:14, and decided to reload the level to get to the requisite character level 18. In the second incarnation of D:14, I found a fresh supply of arrows, a fresh stock of Cure Serious Wounds potions, and an amulet of Searching. I also use-id’d scrolls of identify rune, and found out that my leather armor had resist fire and the Wormtongue mace was resistant to lightning. I also found a wand of stun Monster, a staff of mapping, wand of haste monster, a rod of Light, all of which were use-id’d. My cap of wisdom also suffered damage from a baby black dragon’s breath stray attack. I also found a Maul (+7, +3) later on in the level that did more damage than my Wormtongue mace. Having failed to again reach level 18, I once again reloaded the level and found a Leather Shield [8,+3]. A moaning spirit caused me to lose quite a few DEX points before I could eliminate it. I also encountered Grishnakh, the Hill Orc, which went down to orbs of draining, arrows, and a quaffed potion of speed. I also read-id’d a scroll of trap creation, and found that my mace was a defender weapon ego, which convinced me to wield it over the Maul. I also read-id’d scrolls of door destruction and found a ring of protection [+6], a ring of resist Fire and Cold, and a wand of scare monster after fully exploring the level. Upon one last reload, I found a ring of Slow Digestion, which I thought was useless due to the bonanza of scrolls of satisfy hunger. Still after reaching level 18, I was able to keep it and recall back to town, where I dropped off my excess items, and bought the following to finish the part:

4 potions of Cure Serious Wounds
5 Flasks of Oil
A Staff of Teleportation
A set of gauntlets [3, +5]
Metal Scale Mail (-2) [38, +0]
A cloak of protection [1,+13]
4 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon to-Dam
A scroll of *Enchant Weapon*

The next goal: Reach and clear D:22. I’m probably going to power dive down there at this point so I can gain experience more quickly. Perferably after clearing D:22, I am at character level 25, but I am *not* making it a requirement due to how long it took for me to get to level 18 from D:14.
If I run out of healing potions, arrows, or scrolls of Phase Door, I will immediately attempt to recall back, and if successful, conclude the part to post for you guys.

My questions to you now are this:

Which weapon should I use:
A Mace (Defender) (2d4) (+4,+7) [+3] <+4> (Stealth)
A Maul (4d4) (+7, +3)
The Dagger of Rilia (2d4) (+14, +13)
The Long Sword ‘Elvagil’ (2d5) (+12, +12)

Which weapons do the enchantment scrolls work on?
What items should be stored in the home and what should I take with me? The information is in the updated ladder.
Which prayers do I study? I can buy a Holy Book of Prayers [Excorcism and Dispelling] if need be.
Should I buy any common items right now to cover any weaknesses that I have?

In order to quickly level up, which monsters are good targets to kill this time around? And which monsters should I avoid at all costs?

I've updated my character’s status in the ladder, and would appreciate any answer to the above questions as well as other tips!

[Mondkalb]

For the time being, the Mace is a good weapon, until you have covered resistances and free action otherwise.

You should ditch some stuff, because running around with -2 speed isn't a good idea. I would change some gear into lighter stuff, until you have enough strength.

Any weapon or armor can be enchanted, but higher values are more difficult to achieve. I think, above +12 is increasingly unlikely. Also, artifacts have some resistance against enchantment and it is even more difficult to enchant them.

Since you have the defender and some artifact weapons, you can throw away any normal weapons by now.
As suggested, I would get rid of the heavy chain mail and wear the leather armor instead. You can also get rid of the normal cloak, because you have a better one.

Exorcism and Dispelling might be worth to buy. You could get dispel undead and get heal with Clevel 21.

[Adam]

Since you carry too much, start dropping stuff you don't need.
10 satisfy hunger scrolls are too much, max 2-3 is enough.
You don't need the 5 oils, 15k turns in your lantern should be enough for a trip (and you may also find other lanterns and refuel yours with them).
I also would not carry the enchant weapon scrolls and Elvagil.

[Grotug]

When you have a weapon equipped press 'e' and then 'a' to see how much damage it does. The dagger Rilia probably does the most damage. But the Defender Mace has some super useful abilities like Free Action as already stated. I would keep these two, throw away the maul and store Evalgil at home.

The list of enemies I first gave you is now relevant to your situation. I would recommend reviewing it. While the Umber Hulk is no longer a major threat, Azog still is (Umber Hulk is mostly a problem for weaker characters that don't have _Teleportation). I'd add carrion crawlers (orange c) as enemy to be aware of as it will chain-paralyze you if you do not have your trusty Defender Mace equipped. Hopefully you'll find a ring of FrAct soon, or better, boots of FrAct, and then you can wield Rilia more regularly.

The flasks of oil are very heavy and you do not need to carry more than one.

You could save the scrolls for branded or animal arrows with low enchantment
but honestly I'd just use them on a stack of 20 average arrows. They're not that useful overall. They won't have any effect on your artifact weapons or your short bow. Even the *enchant weapon* scroll is not likely to provide any improvement. Regular scrolls of enchant weapon improve an item to a max of 10 to-dam. *Enchant weapon* max out at 15, but fail a lot above 13 (and fail more on artifacts). Good luck!

[wobbly]

I'd use the defender which I'd enchant. Though using enchant on arrows is another good option. A small note: the regeneration on the defender is SPs as well as HPs.

[Grotug]

I'd use the defender which I'd enchant. Though using enchant on arrows is another good option. A small note: the regeneration on the defender is SPs as well as HPs.

I hadn't looked at the to dam on the defender. You could use regular enchants to get it to (+3, +9) and then the *enchant* -- definitely a good way to go.

[Sphara]

You're doing great so far. Teleport staff and that great Wormtongue-dropped mace are excellent finds. You do have teleport spell in your WoW-book at home (Portal) but staff can be used while confused so stick (no pun) with it.

Under weaknesses I'd put wearing the chain mail. Extra AC is nice but it slows you down and lowers your spell points. Wearing lighter armor and switching reckless attack into another protection ring you would get you pretty close to your current AC and hasten up. -2 speed for a new player is really bad and you don't want to encounter your first sabre-tooth tiger or 3-headed hydra walking around slowed like that. (+3, +4) slaying is also pretty lousy trade-off for -17 AC. Not so much if you keep using your bow, though.

Also I'd drop everything Adam already mentioned, at home. You don't need Elvagil after finding that mace and Rilia-dagger but might as well keep it as a souvenir

I'm waiting for your reaction on your first breathing hound pack encounter. Those things are nasty (Light and Dark ones in lesser extent) and start appearing soon.

[wizard44]

Alright everyone! Nedandon has managed to clear D:22, meaning it's time to post the next part for realignment with you guys.

Complete N00b'€™s Journey: Part 2-3

So, I read the replies and stashed the chain mail (and switched back to the leather armor), 4 flasks of oil, the ring of Reckless Attacks, 7 scrolls of Satisfy Hunger, and Elvagil. Enchanted my mace to (+4, +9) with my regular scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Dam, then used the scroll of *Enchant Weapon* to enchant it up to (+6, +9), which is honestly not bad of a number. Also bought a potion of Resist Fire and quaffed it to improve my identification purposes. With that, I began a fresh run, this time to D:22. Thanks to the sense surroundings spell, I quickly found the downstairs to D:15, which had nothing of note, and my sense surrounding prayer allowed me to quickly find the stairs and get to D:16. D:16 was more of the same, so I decided to quickly descend to D:17, which had Orfax, Son of Boldor to greet me. I also found a Wand of Wonder and had a brief bit of fun with it against some yeeks. I also found an amulet of Inertia as an alternate source of Free Action, and discovered that one of my arrow stacks was ones of Slay Animal, which I used to kill Orfax. He dropped a Soft Leather Armour of Resist Cold [8, +5], which provided me with better AC than my current Leather Armour did. After an encounter with an umber hulk that proved to be trivial thanks to mushrooms to resist confusion that I found, I proceeded to D:18. Other than that, nothing else of note was encountered or found. On D:19, I had my first taste of energy hounds, who thankfully went down to arrows of Slay Animal with ease. I also found that my second stack of arrows was arrows of slay demons upon use towards tengus. Funnily enough, after clearing the room, I found the Dagger "Dethanc€" which provides lightning resistance. I also found a fresh supply of standard arrows so I can save the slaying arrows for bigger things. Nothing else was found on that level, which allowed me to descend to D:20 with ease. I also went to level 20 by clearing a mass of forest trolls, which dropped a wand of slow monster and a scroll of banishment that was identified by equip id (which I used on trolls just for kicks). D:20 was host to Golfimbul, the Hill Orc Chief, who went down to orb of draining. His drops included a Leather Scale Mail (-1) [20, +6], which provided me with quite a bit of AC improvement, and the Pair of Leather Boots of Radagast [2, +12], <+1. +3, +5> (to wisdom, stealth, and infravision respectively). Other stuff that I found and identified there was a ring of Escaping, a rod of Treasure Location, and a ring of Protection [14], which was honestly not a bad haul. Upon descent to D:21 I found a book of Prayer [Exorcism and Dispelling], which I used to learn the prayer of Dispel Undead, and some scrolls of enchant weapon to-hit, which I used towards my arrows and my mace. I found and quaff-id’d a potion of Nimbleness, which decreased a point of strength on my end, which really screwed me over in terms of burden load. I found a ring of Acid€™ [+8], which was a strictly better selection than my ring of protection [+6], a staff of Sleep Monsters and an everburning Lantern. During a battle with a druid, my book of Exorcism and Dispelling was destroyed. As a final, more pleasant surprise of the level, I quaff-id'€™d a potion of Contemplation, which improved my wisdom as an expense to my dexterity.

Heading to D:22, I found an amulet of Wisdom, which was a huge help for prayers. I also got ambushed by a pack of water hounds, who luckily went down to arrows of Slay Animal, and eat-id'€™d mushrooms of emergency. I ran into Bolg, Son of Azog, who went down to repeated Orbs of draining fueled by my potion of Restore Mana. Unfortunately, nothing good came out of Bolg'€™s drops. After the encounter, I found another copy of the Exorcism and Dispelling book and promptly learned the Heal prayer. I then use-id'€™d a Staff of Slow Monsters and dispatched Boldor, King of the Yeeks, which dropped the Chain Mail of Arvedui (-2) [40, +15] <+2 Strength>. After discovering a Staff of Starlight, I ran straight on into Ulfast, son of Ulfang, who dropped a pair of leather boots with unknown properties and less AC than my Botts of Radagast. I also ran into Brodda, the Easterling, who went down and dropped a Maul of Slay Demon (4d4) (+2,+1). I picked up a rod of Lightning Bolts and began exploring the rest of the level, discovering a ring of the Mouse and dropping it. I finished off the level by dealing with Ufthak of Cirith Ungol and by read-id’ing a scroll of Enchant Armour towards the Hard Leather Cap of Wisdom. Being at character level 22 when I cleared D:22, I opted not to reload the level and Recalled back to town, where I bought 40 standard arrows, bought a potion of resist cold, a scroll of holy chant, a scroll of recharging, and a scroll of monster confusion, the latter four for identification purposes.

So the next goal for this guy is to reach and clear D:29.

Right now, the questions for you guys are these:

Is it worth the penalty to wear the Chain Mail of Arvedui? Or should I just stick with the armor that I am wearing right now?

Which weapon is better for me to wield:

The Dagger "Dethanc"€™ (2d4) (+9, +12) [+10]
The Dagger of Rilia (2d4) (+14, +13)
A Maul of Slay Demon (4d4) (+2, +1)
A Mace (Defender) (2d4) (+7, +9) [+3] <+4>

I can buy the following notable items from the black market now:

A wand of Stone to Mud (7 charges, 1215 au)
A Staff of Speed (7 charges, 8100 au)
A Ring of Free Action (1500 au)
A set of Leather Gloves of Free Action [1, +6] (7332 au)
9 potions of Cure Critical Wounds (600 au each)

Which items should be prioritized? In particular, I am interested in which slot Free Action is best towards.

I'm also interested in finding out which items should be stashed/taken with me right now.

Is quaff-id'€™ing the way to go for any potions that I find in the future, or is it too risky at this point? What about read-id'€™ing scrolls?

Which creatures should I look out the most in this level range? And which monsters should I actively seek out to level up quickly?

The current status of Nedandon has been updated, and I would appreciate any answers to the above questions!

[Gauss]

Since you already have free action from boots and can see invisible as a high elf, i would use the longsword Evalgil since it has the highest dps of all weapons aviable.

[Mondkalb]

Since you already have free action from boots and can see invisible as a high elf, i would use the longsword Evalgil since it has the highest dps of all weapons aviable.

Yeah, but only if you use Arvedui to cover resistances. You have to try, if your char is strong enough with the additional strength bonus.

Also, hand gear of free action is always a good choice, in case you swap other sources out (like with the defender if you choose to use Elvagil).
There are only a few very good gloves/gauntlets and most of them also grant free action.
The boots of Radagast are not bad, but you will eventually exchange them with boots of speed.

OTOH, Elvagil might be not a good choice because of the priest spell failure penalty for using it (being an edged weapon).

[wobbly]

I almost guarantee dethanc will do more damage once the brand is ided. I'd wear Arvedui and then it'd be a toss-up between lightning bolts from dethanc or stealth and regen from the defender. I suspect I'd use the defender in the end. I'd also be grabbing the speed staff and trying to collect recharge scrolls.

I think you've got a bunch of good options though and no "right choice".