just for magnate

[PowerDiver]

Your recent comments about difficulty finding randarts with speed made this char stand out in my mind. I wouldn't be so slow if I used a ring or boots of speed, but this dump has speed boosts only from randarts.

[fizzix]

I feel like I should hijack this thread and post a character that used a shield with a max depth of 80 as her endgame shield. The shield was my only source of rconf all game. I think I might have found a helm of serenity at some point, but I really needed the hat slot.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10497&ok

Hopefully this provides a little push to remove max depth on artifacts.

[ewert]

I had similar as PD a few games back, think it was my priest, speed up the wazooooo. And what, there is max depth on artifacts? Ditch that, yeah ASAP, that is silly.

[PowerDiver]

And what, there is max depth on artifacts? Ditch that, yeah ASAP, that is silly.

More agreement that max depth on randarts is a bad idea. You should only put max depth on an item guaranteed to be replaced by an equally or more common item that dominates it.

FWIW the change to drop level should mean that you can still get artifacts that are too shallow for the current depth by killing snagas, but that should not be the solution.

[Magnate]

Your recent comments about difficulty finding randarts with speed made this char stand out in my mind. I wouldn't be so slow if I used a ring or boots of speed, but this dump has speed boosts only from randarts.

Ok - that looks alright to me. Are you ok with this, or was this an indication that speed is too common on randarts? Admittedly +11 on the amulet and +7 on the hat is quite an unusual combination, but all that speed is at the expense of stat boosts etc., so it seems fair enough.

If I remove the max depth settings on randarts, I don't want to see a single post that says "ha, I killed a tough unique at dl99 and it dropped this shitty randart dagger" ..... fair?

[konijn_]

Ok - that looks alright to me. Are you ok with this, or was this an indication that speed is too common on randarts? Admittedly +11 on the amulet and +7 on the hat is quite an unusual combination, but all that speed is at the expense of stat boosts etc., so it seems fair enough.

If I remove the max depth settings on randarts, I don't want to see a single post that says "ha, I killed a tough unique at dl99 and it dropped this shitty randart dagger" ..... fair?

Myeah.. Maybe you should fiddle then with max depth setting instead of eradicating ?

T.

[fizzix]

If I remove the max depth settings on randarts, I don't want to see a single post that says "ha, I killed a tough unique at dl99 and it dropped this shitty randart dagger" ..... fair?

Absolutely, no one should complain about an artifact, no matter how crappy. The reason is, once you get rid of it, you'll never find it again.

This is different from all the useless branded weapons and *slay* weapons that are completely useless and can't be squelched without squelching all non-artifacts. That's annoying (and I think getting fixed soon?). Artifacts are never annoying.

[PowerDiver]

Ok - that looks alright to me. Are you ok with this, or was this an indication that speed is too common on randarts? Admittedly +11 on the amulet and +7 on the hat is quite an unusual combination, but all that speed is at the expense of stat boosts etc., so it seems fair enough

It's just one case, the other extreme from the game you posted. I have no idea if speed is too common or too rare on randarts.

[Atarlost]

Um. Killing snagas isn't a solution I don't think. I think the real problem is randarts with a max depth shallower than their base item. It may be rare, but unless it's impossible the change to drops doesn't fix the whole problem. Maybe one game in a thousand will have a significant problem with artifacts with needed abilities being impossible to generate, but a lot of people play a lot of games of Angband.

[PowerDiver]

was this an indication that speed is too common on randarts?

It continues to get sillier, and the game isn't over yet. Did you up the likelihood of speed boosts after your game, or is this just variance?

I'd certainly have appreciated some other stuff instead of speed this game. I was using a plain =dam+15 over =speed+13.

a) The Halberd 'Morth' (7d5) (+19,+14) [+5] (+4) {evil *demon acid elec}
     +4 intelligence, wisdom, constitution, speed.
     Slays animals, evil creatures, undead, trolls, giants.
     *Slays* demons.
     Branded with acid, lightning.
     Provides resistance to lightning, cold, light, dark, shards.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Blessed by the gods.  Grants the ability to see invisible things.


     When aimed, it drains up to 120 hit points of life from a target c
     reature.
     Takes 328 to 400 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 82.7%

     Combat info:
     6 blows/round.
     Average damage/hit: 122.2 vs. animals, 122.2 vs. evil creatures,
     146 vs. undead, 146 vs. trolls, 146 vs. giants, 146 vs. creatures
     not resistant to acid, 146 vs. creatures not resistant to
     electricity, 193.4 vs. demons, and 74.8 vs. others.

     Radius 1 light.

c) The Ring of Nentauri (+4) (charging)
     +4 strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution,
     charisma, speed.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fear, light, sound, shards,
     nexus, disenchantment.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains wisdom.
     Slows your metabolism.

     When activated, it completely lights up and magically maps the lev
     el.
     Takes 720 to 1056 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 80.9%

e) The Elfstone of Teluin (+11) {speed}
     +11 speed.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Speeds regeneration.

f) The Palantir of Nienos (+8)
     +8 speed.
     It causes your melee attacks to slay giants.
     Provides resistance to nether.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.

     When activated, it maps the entire level and detects objects, trap
     s, doors, and stairs.
     Takes 204 to 400 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 82.7%

     Radius 3 light.

g) tossed randart armor with speed+3

h) The Elven Cloak of Ruind [6,+12] (+3)
     +3 wisdom, dexterity, stealth, speed.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains constitution.
     Speeds regeneration.
     
l) tossed randart boots with speed+2 to wear boots of speed+7



[note particularly Legon and Sildormen below]
     
r) The Set of Leather Gloves of Legon (+0,+5) [1,+17] (+6)
     +6 speed. 
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     
s) The Long Sword 'Galad' (4d5) (+14,+16) [+4] (+5)
     +5 intelligence, charisma, speed.
     Slays demons.
     Branded with acid, flames.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains dexterity.
     Blessed by the gods.  Slows your metabolism.  Speeds regeneration.


     Combat info:
     6 blows/round.
     This weapon may benefit from one or more off-weapon brands or slays.
     Average damage/hit: 106.9 vs. demons, 106.9 vs. giants, 106.9 vs.
     creatures not resistant to acid, 106.9 vs. creatures not resistant
     to fire, and 66.5 vs. others.
     
o) The Iron Crown of Annarnin [0,+19] (+3) (charging) {con speed SI}
     +3 intelligence, constitution, speed.
     Provides resistance to cold, fear, blindness, chaos.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.

     When activated, it hastens you for d75+75 turns.
     Takes 424 to 520 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 92.9%
     
p) The Steel Helm of Sildormen [9,+13] (+7) {speed}
     +7 speed.
     Provides resistance to fire, blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
     Sustains intelligence.

[Estie]

If I remove the max depth settings on randarts, I don't want to see a single post that says "ha, I killed a tough unique at dl99 and it dropped this shitty randart dagger" ..... fair?

Yes. How about making the min and max apply to monsterlevel instead of dungeonlevel ?

I am not sure either if speed on randarts is too common, but PowerDiver´s warrior is certainly extreme. Prefering =damage over =speed is a pleasant change from the norm imho.
I have had characters with more than one big speed artifact in the pool, but iirc never actually found more than one. Also, in some cases I preferred something else over the speed artifacts in that slot.

[Daniel Fishman]

In my current (3.1.2v2 randart Dwarf Priest) game, I had one attempt at Morgoth wearing =Soulkeeping rather than =RoS+10, and eventually killed him using =Dam+14 rather than =RoS+12. That was with BoS+9, and "Trickery+3, mind, and I spent a lot longer at dlvl98 and 99 than a lot of players do.l

[Magnate]

Yes. How about making the min and max apply to monsterlevel instead of dungeonlevel ?

I am not sure either if speed on randarts is too common, but PowerDiver´s warrior is certainly extreme. Prefering =damage over =speed is a pleasant change from the norm imho.
I have had characters with more than one big speed artifact in the pool, but iirc never actually found more than one. Also, in some cases I preferred something else over the speed artifacts in that slot.

Indeed. A nice change from the norm, providing it isn't too frequent.

@Eddie: I didn't change the likelihood of speed on anything except boots, but I did increase the numbers slightly. Looks like I may have overdone it, if your game is not an outlier.

Unforch RL intervened before I got round to changing the max depth. I'll do this as soon as my dev box is back up. I haven't forgotten.