Going all the way...

[Fendell Orcbane]

So the last character that I got down to 5000' was killed by Morgoth. Since then I've been trying to get a character ready to kill Morgoth. So far I've been able to keep my current character alive. The way that I've done that is by being careful as I possibly can while going down as low as I can. So for the past 5 days or so I've being dropping down to 4900' and either looting vaults or picking fights with Great Wyrms, Balrogs, Titans and other high end monsters. But I'm also avoiding the High End uniques like Vecna, Gothmog etc...

So pretty much I'm doing a lot of snatch and grab runs. During my last one I pretty much entered a vault because it had one CON potion. Sure it had a lot of high end uniques like Alcalagon the Black, Gothmog and the Balrog of Moria. After getting the potion I *destructioned* the vault to check for any artifacts. Sure enough I found Umbar. Which I was happy about since I had 27 bolts of Holy might. But I only get one shot a round, so I don't know if its worth it. I might be better off just using my bow on Morgoth. Especially if I can find some Slay Evil or Holy Might Arrows.

What do you think? Here is my character BTW.

[PowerDiver]

You want to kill the uniques with escorts including balrogs and reavers before you even worry about a suitable kit for M. It is true that I don't follow that advice myself, but I think it is appropriate if you died the last time you faced him.

[Fendell Orcbane]

You want to kill the uniques with escorts including balrogs and reavers before you even worry about a suitable kit for M. It is true that I don't follow that advice myself, but I think it is appropriate if you died the last time you faced him.

Well right now I'm just killing the hardest monsters I can in hopes for finding better stuff. Honestly though I think that I just need more CON, a lot of holy might or slay evils and maybe a better bow and better armour.

[Derakon]

If you're looking for gear, focus on dragons, trolls, and orcs. They have the best drop rate to danger level. Titans, balrogs, and reavers are not worth fighting.

[Fendell Orcbane]

I always thought that the most dangerous monsters would have the best loot. Or are yu saying that its not worth the effort/danger of attacking Titans,Balrogs and Arch liches.

[Timo Pietilä]

If you're looking for gear, focus on dragons, trolls, and orcs. They have the best drop rate to danger level. Titans, balrogs, and reavers are not worth fighting.

With decent high-dice weapon angels are good source for gear. Archons drop {good} items and are not very dangerous and, barring uniques, they are worst angels there are. Fight in corridors and let "angel explosion" happen. Lesser angels drop consumables and archons drop good gear.

You should have no problems against angels. Ringil is "good enough". Though last time I used "angel farming" I had SoS of Fury +2. Insane weapon with acid branding (though acid is no use against angels).

For your char Balrog of Moria is not "high end unique". More like tiny speed bump barring your way to items.

BTW WTF is Feanor doing in your home? Wear it. It is the only item in the game that has no competition. Absolutely best item in the game. You are even lacking nexus resist which it gives. That is way more important than nether or chaos resists.

[Timo Pietilä]

I always thought that the most dangerous monsters would have the best loot. Or are yu saying that its not worth the effort/danger of attacking Titans,Balrogs and Arch liches.

In your depth dlvl affects drop more than monster level. In older versions deeper the monster better the drop, but in new versions it doesn't do average of dlvl and mlvl, it instead picks the deeper of the two. So at your dlvl any monster that has {good} drop is as good as any of those you mentioned.

For consumables (like stat-potions) it is best to kill monsters that do _not_ drop {good} items, like orcs and trolls, Ancient and mature dragons, that kind of things. I find groups of low level thieves almost best possible source for consumables.

[Fendell Orcbane]

With decent high-dice weapon angels are good source for gear. Archons drop {good} items and are not very dangerous and, barring uniques, they are worst angels there are. Fight in corridors and let "angel explosion" happen. Lesser angels drop consumables and archons drop good gear.

You should have no problems against angels. Ringil is "good enough". Though last time I used "angel farming" I had SoS of Fury +2. Insane weapon with acid branding (though acid is no use against angels).

For your char Balrog of Moria is not "high end unique". More like tiny speed bump barring your way to items.

BTW WTF is Feanor doing in your home? Wear it. It is the only item in the game that has no competition. Absolutely best item in the game. You are even lacking nexus resist which it gives. That is way more important than nether or chaos resists.

Why is Feanor that great? I'm already at +23 speed I'd only gain +10 with Feanor and loss Chaos resist. Have you ever been hit with unresisted Chaos? Its no fun. My stats are almost already maxed so why is Nexus so important? Having said all that Speed is a big thing in this game so I do get that Feanor is awesome but I also hear that once you get past +30 you don't gain that much with greater speed. So while I don't doubt you I also don't understand what I could gain by wearing Feanor. BTW I'm going to start Angel farming : ) It sounds fun.

[Derakon]

Nexus is more important than Chaos. Chaos will cause you to hallucinate and drain some experience; the former can be fixed with a CCW potion and the latter is nothing to worry about (and it can confuse you, which of course is blockable with confusion resistance). Nexus can teleport you:

* right next to the teleporter, which could pull you into LOS of his buddies
* off the level entirely, which is generally not that dangerous but could be a major annoyance
* Elsewhere on the level, which could drop you next to angry monsters who can then move immediately*

Nexus resistance protects against all of these, while a saving throw only protects against the teleport-level effect.

* I actually lost a character to a drolem today for the first time in memory. A monster I was fighting summoned some stuff I didn't want to deal with and that wasn't easily amenable to teleport-other. So I teleported myself instead, and immediately got nuked by drolem breath. Whoops! I even had a couple of sources of poison resistance available to me, which I wasn't using because they would have cost me a blow in melee (I was playing a warrior).

[Fendell Orcbane]

Nexus is more important than Chaos. Chaos will cause you to hallucinate and drain some experience; the former can be fixed with a CCW potion and the latter is nothing to worry about (and it can confuse you, which of course is blockable with confusion resistance). Nexus can teleport you:

* right next to the teleporter, which could pull you into LOS of his buddies
* off the level entirely, which is generally not that dangerous but could be a major annoyance
* Elsewhere on the level, which could drop you next to angry monsters who can then move immediately*

Nexus resistance protects against all of these, while a saving throw only protects against the teleport-level effect.

* I actually lost a character to a drolem today for the first time in memory. A monster I was fighting summoned some stuff I didn't want to deal with and that wasn't easily amenable to teleport-other. So I teleported myself instead, and immediately got nuked by drolem breath. Whoops! I even had a couple of sources of poison resistance available to me, which I wasn't using because they would have cost me a blow in melee (I was playing a warrior).

Hmm, food for thought. It seems like everytime I think that I know what the best thing to do is I find out that it really might not be the best thing. Plus people say different things. Obviously the best thing is to resist everything... But do you agree that Feanor is worth wearing? I'm already +33 speed w/ hasting. And I try to always be hasted while in the dungeon.

Sorry about the character. I hate Drolems...they do a lot of damage but don't drop anything at all.

[Timo Pietilä]

Why is Feanor that great? I'm already at +23 speed I'd only gain +10 with Feanor and loss Chaos resist. Have you ever been hit with unresisted Chaos? Its no fun. My stats are almost already maxed so why is Nexus so important? Having said all that Speed is a big thing in this game so I do get that Feanor is awesome but I also hear that once you get past +30 you don't gain that much with greater speed. So while I don't doubt you I also don't understand what I could gain by wearing Feanor. BTW I'm going to start Angel farming : ) It sounds fun.

difference between 23 and 33 is quite huge. You can get that from haste, but permanent is better. It also helps against monsters that slow you down (inertia, gravity). It also allows you to get better combinations.

That chaos worries me too. Hallucination is major nuisance and can be quite deadly because you don't see what's coming, even that it isn't hugely dangerous by it's own. I'd use Dal-i-Thalion as swap.

You have a bit odd combination of things. You have three high-end artifacts: Ringil, Feanor and Vilya, but you lack most mid-rarity useful artifacts like Thorin, Thranduil, Gondor. Thorin (with Belthronding) or Gondor would solve your combination problems perfectly. Gondor especially would be perfect find for now.

I would also consider using Belegennon, though that is a hard choice. rShards or much better stealth with basic4+poison covered in case you find better bow (like some Lothlorien longbow)? Stealth would help you getting around unnoticed easier, but at this deep there are few max shard breathers. Speed also helps stealth (monsters don't have time to wake up).

Speed affects stealth pretty strongly BTW. Monsters can wake up only when they have a turn (unless forcibly woken, like by hurting them, or with scroll of aggravate monster). So 1/4 increase in speed means practically 1/4 increase in stealth too. With that +10 increase in speed you'll notice that dungeon is a lot safer place to walk around.

[Fendell Orcbane]

difference between 23 and 33 is quite huge. You can get that from haste, but permanent is better. It also helps against monsters that slow you down (inertia, gravity). It also allows you to get better combinations.

That chaos worries me too. Hallucination is major nuisance and can be quite deadly because you don't see what's coming, even that it isn't hugely dangerous by it's own. I'd use Dal-i-Thalion as swap.

You have a bit odd combination of things. You have three high-end artifacts: Ringil, Feanor and Vilya, but you lack most mid-rarity useful artifacts like Thorin, Thranduil, Gondor. Thorin (with Belthronding) or Gondor would solve your combination problems perfectly. Gondor especially would be perfect find for now.

I would also consider using Belegennon, though that is a hard choice. rShards or much better stealth with basic4+poison covered in case you find better bow (like some Lothlorien longbow)? Stealth would help you getting around unnoticed easier, but at this deep there are few max shard breathers. Speed also helps stealth (monsters don't have time to wake up).

Speed affects stealth pretty strongly BTW. Monsters can wake up only when they have a turn (unless forcibly woken, like by hurting them, or with scroll of aggravate monster). So 1/4 increase in speed means practically 1/4 increase in stealth too. With that +10 increase in speed you'll notice that dungeon is a lot safer place to walk around.

Well it can't hurt to try Feanor out can it?

As for the high end stuff I guess I got lucky this time around : ) I especially like Vilya stat boosting plus immunity to electric attacks lets me attack Storm Wryms with no fear. Well actually speed does that too. I just took Saruman out and he only got off 4 attacks. I almost felt like I was cheating. But he didn't drop anything useful at all. Some random moster dropped Calris and Saruman dropped a robe of resist lighting and some seeker arrows.

Yeah my set up is weird but I'm picking my fights based on my equipment for the most part so it works. Of course I'd love Thorin rChaos and immunity to Acid. Thanks for the advice btw!

EDIT: I avoid the higher end hounds like the plague...I'll leave the level if they are near or *destruct* the area. Hounds are just not worth the trouble.

[Derakon]

Look at what Dal-I-Thalion gives you:

* +5 DEX: you have way more dexterity than you can possibly use right now. Pointless.
* +5 Speed: Feanor does this better.
* Resistance to confusion: also provided by Holhenneth
* Resistance to nether, chaos: a bit annoying to not have these (nether mostly, since there's lots of big breathers of it).
* Sustain CON: already provided by Cambeleg
* Free action: you have gobs of sources of this
* An activation that cures you of ailments you can't get.

Look at what Feanor gives you:

* +15 speed: going from +28 speed to +43 speed is an increase of about 16% in your speed, which is smallish but still significant. In particular it takes you well past the point at which Morgy can double-move you, even if you're slowed.
* Resistance to nexus: fairly important, as I noted, though I'm not certain if it beats nether resistance.
* A haste activation; you can already cast the spell.

Basically, it comes down to whether or not you think nexus + 10 speed beats nether + chaos. I can't make that decision for you.

[Timo Pietilä]

* Resistance to nexus: fairly important, as I noted, though I'm not certain if it beats nether resistance.

Nexus is much better than nether. Question is that is it better than chaos resist at this point. There are few quite common heavy chaos breathers and chaos side-effect is potentially deadly, while nether is just minor nuisance.

In any case I would use Dal-i-Thalion as swap. There is no point arguing which armor is better is you can have both depending on situation and neither is absolutely vital for any situation. Feanor with nexus as main because of speed-boost and Dal-i-Thalion as swap against chaos breathers (Pit Fiend, common if any major demon summoner gets a chance to summon, Balance and Chaos dragons also relatively common in summons).

[Fendell Orcbane]

Nexus is much better than nether. Question is that is it better than chaos resist at this point. There are few quite common heavy chaos breathers and chaos side-effect is potentially deadly, while nether is just minor nuisance.

In any case I would use Dal-i-Thalion as swap. There is no point arguing which armor is better is you can have both depending on situation and neither is absolutely vital for any situation. Feanor with nexus as main because of speed-boost and Dal-i-Thalion as swap against chaos breathers (Pit Fiend, common if any major demon summoner gets a chance to summon, Balance and Chaos dragons also relatively common in summons).

I did infact just have to deal with a Balance Wyrm...so I just swapped. Feanor gave me 14 unanswered hits on an Archlich so I'll be keeping it around for a switch and praying for some better armor with all the resists.