Is it just me....

[Derakon]

In fact, to my knowledge the only cursed items you can get now are rings with negative bonuses (e.g. cursed rings of searching) and cursed egos (most notably weapons of Morgul, but also including cloaks of enveloping, helms of teleportation, etc.). I suppose there are cursed artifacts as well, but artifacts are noticed on pickup, so you're unlikely to wield them unknowingly.

Incidentally, why is ammo of backbiting cursed? If you equip it to your quiver, can you then not remove it until it's uncursed?

[PowerDiver]

Incidentally, why is ammo of backbiting cursed? If you equip it to your quiver, can you then not remove it until it's uncursed?

Who knows, but I've always assumed it was so that it would be destroyed by priests' orb.

[Matthias]

overall difficulty? no. But it certainly is harder in an average-value difficulty.

In my mind it's the difference of making 10000 decisions that you only have 1 in 10000 chance of screwing up and making 100 decisions that you have a 1 in 100 chance of screwing up. Both have the same overall difficulty (about 36.7% of not screwing up over all decisions) but the individual decisions in the second case are harder.

Does that make any sense?

It does, but you are making numbers appear out of thin air (which don't match with my experience) Even a slow player will come across those 1 in 100 decisions because no matter how slow you play you'll never get to a point where everything is trivial.
So to make up my own set of numbers, a slow player will have to face 10000 decisions with 1/10000 chance plus 50 decisions with 1/100 chance.

[Fendell Orcbane]

I notice that there are two camps in Angband. The divers and the clearers. While I was in the clearing camp I don't know if I'm quite in the ruthless diving camp either. I doubt that I'm going to go past 2000' if I don't have a poision resist source. Too risky I'd hate to get insta killed by a Drolem. I hate Drolems...big waste of time. They don't drop treasure and while yeah you do get a lot of exp. its not worth the risk unless you are double resisting poison.

Now having said all that diving will make your character more powerful with somewhat less risk. The reason being that you can get better drops lower down. If you kill a snaga on lvl8 vs. lvl28 the one on lvl28 is more likely to give you something better. But its the same snaga. Same risk better reward.

[Fendell Orcbane]

I *don't* think the game is easier. I just think it takes less time to complete. The change of CLW, CSW and CCW is a welcome change, although CLW can be toned down some. Scumming for healing potions is not fun and not necessarily *harder* just more boring.

Now there are two effects that make the game easier that I think are broken. Missile damage is overpowered, especially with extra shots. The quiver protects arrows from acid and fire. The second one is clearly a bug, but one that does make the game easier, and removes decision making.

That being said, if you find the game too easy, you aren't going down fast enough. I think, only Eddie can argue that the game is too easy, because I can't imagine him diving any faster than he currently is.

Honestly I'm pretty much just looking for stairs and the odd high exp kill. I just found a lot of good stuff early on like Nimthanc which makes life a lot easier. When I was playing 3.0.9 I never would have attacked Nar the Dwarf when I was only 19th lvl. Nar actually almost killed me the first time I fought him in 3.0.9. Also I had a lot of trouble with hounds in 3.0.9....now? Not so much. Although maybe that is because I tend to just go for stairs rather than trying to clear out the level.

[fizzix]

It does, but you are making numbers appear out of thin air (which don't match with my experience) Even a slow player will come across those 1 in 100 decisions because no matter how slow you play you'll never get to a point where everything is trivial.
So to make up my own set of numbers, a slow player will have to face 10000 decisions with 1/10000 chance plus 50 decisions with 1/100 chance.

I felt when I played slowly, I was well equipped to face everything on any level I was on. I pretty much cleared uniques out at their native depth. It took a long time to get anywhere, but it wasn't hard, just tedious (which is ok, because I'm pretty OCD)

I've been trying to play faster the past couple years, and it's a different game. I can't handle most things on the level and I find that I need to make more critical decisions than I did when I played slowly. Yeah I made numbers up out of thin air, but that was just from my experience.

You want some changes to make the game harder?

Remove +shots
Remove all +to-dam bonuses on ammo
Remove ammo-branding spells (maybe leave them for rangers)
Weaken detection
Weaken ESP
Fix losing ammo in quiver
Destruction destroys artifacts (can refind if unid'd)
Remove tunneling and Stone to Mud (remake vaults)
Tweak monster AI to disallow hack-and-back and pillar dancing.
Remove trick shots
Make Morgoth clear all 9 squares around him

I will soon play a game with the first two implemented (because they're easy enough for me to code) and I'll surely let you know my experience.

[PowerDiver]

You want some changes to make the game harder?

Remove +shots
Remove all +to-dam bonuses on ammo
Remove ammo-branding spells (maybe leave them for rangers)
Weaken detection
Weaken ESP
Fix losing ammo in quiver
Destruction destroys artifacts (can refind if unid'd)
Remove tunneling and Stone to Mud (remake vaults)
Tweak monster AI to disallow hack-and-back and pillar dancing.
Remove trick shots
Make Morgoth clear all 9 squares around him

Sounds like a good start, though I might not like weakened detection. A couple comments:

Remaking vaults appears to be a major pain. I think it would be easier to add a post-processing step in dungeon creation that changes walls to rubble as needed to connect the entire level.

I don't know how you remove trick shots. The problem is that vision is not cone-based as it should be, and the only solution I see gets back to things like DFOV stuff. However, hockeysticks can be fixed by making the monster LOS path to the player the same as the player LOS path to the monster. This is about 4th on my todo list.

I'm currently working on rewriting the quiver. Unfortunately, it appears to be tedious rather than hard and I am having trouble motivating myself.

I think a good implementation of fractional blows will stop hack-and-back and pillar dancing in one-on-one situations. That may be a better first approach than going after the AI.

[LostTemplar]

Removing all possible tactics may be not so good.
If hockey stick has to be removed, add ability to dig entrenchmens then.

[Fendell Orcbane]

I agree when I started this thread I was more refering to the fact that it seemed easier to get good magic items fairly early in the game.

[fizzix]

Removing all possible tactics may be not so good.
If hockey stick has to be removed, add ability to dig entrenchmens then.

Don't *build* them, use what already occurs on the level. I haven't dug an ASC in a long time, but I have specifically fought monsters in vaults, twisting corridors, destruction zones, etc.

And I wasn't even talking about hockey sticking. I was more talking about the situation that looks like.

###########
#####D....*
@.....#####
###########

If @ shoots at the star he can hit the D. I don't like asymmetric LoS but I can live with it. This seems like a cheap exploit.

The point I want to make is that if you're going to make the game harder, you need to do it in a way that the solution isn't 'just grind more.' Lowering frequencies of weapons or consumables has that problem.

And is remaking vaults really that much of a problem? I bet I can do it in a day by replacing appropriate granite walls with rubble. Yeah you've got to surround some vaults with a moat of rubble, but besides that, what's the problem?

[LostTemplar]

Tactical advantage is IMHO the best part of angband, it only works if you see enemy before enemy attacks you. It is still possible to die to ambush.
You will end with a single player ascii WoW if you remove it.

[Fendell Orcbane]

If the monsters can use LOS issues to their advantage, then what is the problem. ANd why are people against ASC?

[Sirridan]

If the monsters can use LOS issues to their advantage, then what is the problem. ANd why are people against ASC?

ASC is rather cheap because the AI isn't advanced enough to avoid it, with the exception of teleport-away / teleport-to monsters or those who destroy walls (Morgoth, Maeglin). Many consider it a bug because of that, including me.

And monsters and players using asymmetric LOS to their advantage is a bug I believe. In all cases if A can hit B, B should be able to hit A, it's just logic.

correct me if I'm wrong about calling these bugs by the way.

[LostTemplar]

Ai is definitely stupid and should be improved.

if A can hit B, B should be able to hit A

well in real life it is not like this, you cannot see a man in a building from the street, but he can shoot you.

[PowerDiver]

If the monsters can use LOS issues to their advantage, then what is the problem. ANd why are people against ASC?

Surely M should set up DL 100 with his throne at the end of a 20 square hockeystick with permanent walls and manastorm you as you go after him, and teleport you away when you get two squares away. Then he would be acting like the player.