Really? Cursed.

[fizzix]

I think Eddie's point is that Alter Reality == Teleport Level except it breaks Ironman because it doesn't move you down a level, which seems sloppy and unnecessary. Since Teleport Level already exists, what is the point of Alter Reality, if not to exploit Ironman mode? You could just give priests TL instead.

They have TL. They get it 10 levels earlier and it costs 20 less SP.

[PowerDiver]

Nope, don't agree with that. It's also a pretty decent escape spell in an emergency.

How is it any better than the cheaper TL which also has a lower failure rate? That was purely rhetorical. TL is obviously better.

I repeat. The *ONLY* purpose of alter reality is for abuse at ironman.

[Atarlost]

As far as escaping goes, I still prefer destruction. After a destruction you have at least 4-5 turns, often as much as 20 (depending on speed and passwall monsters) to heal or recall. ?destruction is a failsafe way to survive when you are in a really bad place and need a couple turns to quaff !CCW or stall for recall.

It seems though that you agree with Eddie in that Alter Reality works just like Teleport level. The 1 level difference doesn't seem to matter much.

The chance of descent with teleport level may have mattered when players watched level breakpoints instead of powerdiving. If you were one level above the old reccomended breakpoint for having +10 speed you would use alter reality, but I think all the other breakpoints were before the spell was available anyhow.

[Pete Mack]

alter reality works 100% at dl 99 (Teleport Level was only 50% in earlier versions). *Destruction* spell is not generally available to a priest (Wrath is native to dl 100 and quite rare.)

Now that ?Tele Level is guaranteed to work at dl 99, I agree that it can be removed.

[JohnCW9]

How is it any better than the cheaper TL which also has a lower failure rate? That was purely rhetorical. TL is obviously better.

I repeat. The *ONLY* purpose of alter reality is for abuse at ironman.

I use it quite often when I want a change with out going up or down. I don't think I used it to esape anything. I very selldom even attempt ironman.

John

[Derakon]

Alter Reality is a zero-turn perfect escape, like Teleport Level / Deep Descent, but it keeps you on your current level, which is often preferable. It's only really abusable in the context of ironman games because your supply of dungeon levels is supposed to be limited.

[d_m]

Alter Reality is a zero-turn perfect escape, like Teleport Level / Deep Descent, but it keeps you on your current level, which is often preferable. It's only really abusable in the context of ironman games because your supply of dungeon levels is supposed to be limited.

Which is Eddie's point--that it is redundant *except* for abuse when doing ironman.

[Derakon]

How is it any better than the cheaper TL which also has a lower failure rate? That was purely rhetorical. TL is obviously better.

I repeat. The *ONLY* purpose of alter reality is for abuse at ironman.

There are plenty of Angband players who aren't on these forums and thus don't know about the relatively recent fad for fast diving. I'd warrant that they wouldn't like having to risk heading deeper than they feel comfortable (even if we agree that it'd probably be a good thing for them). So there's multiple uses for Alter Reality. There's just a question of if any of them should be supported.

If Alter Reality gets removed, what do we replace it with?

[Pete Mack]

Teleport Level works just as well. On average it doesn't change your level. And the difference between dl 40 and dl 41 just isn't that big, especially for a brief trip down.

[PowerDiver]

If Alter Reality gets removed, what do we replace it with?

Nothing. It is only available to deep priests, so most people won't even realize it is gone. Teleport level is entirely acceptable as an escape mechanism.

If you can't stand to drop a level, given the number of trapdoors and descent spells cast at you, then you should be playing a level higher. Upstairs are plentiful. Use them.

Also, if there is that much of a difference between the danger at any two adjacent dLevels, that is a bug that should be fixed. A simple change to OoD checks that makes something 1 level out of depth less likely to fail to generate than something that is 10 levels OoD is easy to implement.

[Remuz]

There are plenty of Angband players who aren't on these forums and thus don't know about the relatively recent fad for fast diving. I'd warrant that they wouldn't like having to risk heading deeper than they feel comfortable (even if we agree that it'd probably be a good thing for them). So there's multiple uses for Alter Reality. There's just a question of if any of them should be supported.

If Alter Reality gets removed, what do we replace it with?

Most players in the case you describe will need to regenerate a level before this spell gets available to them, anyway. They will do so with stairs. Default settings use connected stairs, so you can just go up the stairs and explore the level as usual if you prefer having a level feeling over the exact depth, or go down immediately again if you don't mind losing the level feeling. With the removal of autoscum, this is not too bad an option, in my opinion.

[buzzkill]

Having never used Alter Reality, I'm certainly not the voice of authority, but having read the this thread, let me offer the following. Use any or all of these suggestions to nerf alter reality.

Jack up the mana cost.
Generate a small and/or boring level.
Generate a level devoid of uniques and/or vaults and/or (floor) artifacts.

This will still provide an escape (which is the point, right?) while minimizing the scumming. Feel free to tell me that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

[fizzix]

Having never used Alter Reality, I'm certainly not the voice of authority, but having read the this thread, let me offer the following. Use any or all of these suggestions to nerf alter reality.

Jack up the mana cost.
Generate a small and/or boring level.
Generate a level devoid of uniques and/or vaults and/or (floor) artifacts.

This will still provide an escape (which is the point, right?) while minimizing the scumming. Feel free to tell me that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

The main thing to scum for in ironman are consumables !speed, !life, !rmana, ?banish, ?mass banish, ammo, !stat gain

If you want, you can make alter-reality make a single empty room with an up staircase and a down staircase. But then you should name it something else. I'd suggest sanctuary, but that's already taken by a completely useless spell.

[Derakon]

If you want, you can make alter-reality make a single empty room with an up staircase and a down staircase. But then you should name it something else. I'd suggest sanctuary, but that's already taken by a completely useless spell.

I like that.

And yeah, I'd say remove Sanctuary before removing Alter Reality. Sleep effects stop being useful once you have the stamina to take out entire groups of orcs in one sitting.

[NotMorgoth]

Couldn't you make Alter Reality only useable once per dungeon level; ie if you use it on DL60, it will generate a new DL60 which is generated normally except that Alter Reality does not work.

This could either be 'reset' by going up and down stairs, or could maybe be limited to once per DL for the whole game, so going back to DL60 would not allow you to use it again, but it could still be used once on DL61 etc.

This would limit the scumming potential of the spell but still allow its use as an escape.