Anybody watching the World Cup?

[Nick]

I'd love to see a game without the offside rule altogether, too, just because it would be interesting to see how much it might open things up. However, I can also see where it might be too much.

Field hockey (very like soccer, but with sticks and a small hard ball) has fairly recently abandoned its offside rule, which IMHO is a great improvement. It would be interesting to see how the corresponding change would go in soccer.

[Timo Pietilä]

Field hockey (very like soccer, but with sticks and a small hard ball)

Using that as reference to what is "very like soccer" american football and rugby are close to football as well.

BTW why do people in US call that grass-field played handball "football"?

[Nick]

Using that as reference to what is "very like soccer" american football and rugby are close to football as well.

Field hockey has the same scoring system, side and end lines play similar roles, team sizes are the same.

BTW why do people in US call that grass-field played handball "football"?

OK, simplistic history:
Football largely started in Britain; after some chaos, two competing codes emerged - Association football ("soccer") and Rugby football ("rugger"). Rugger's most direct descendant is rugby union, but rugby league and american/candian football are also basically from rugger. Gaelic football and Australian football are not really descendants of either, but have been influenced by the other codes.

Interestingly, these last two don't have an offside rule; I have heard this nicely described as like the difference between trench warfare and guerilla warfare.

[Timo Pietilä]

OK, simplistic history:
Football largely started in Britain;

Which "football" you refer here?

I think football has been played since stone-ages in variety of different cultures. Modern version probably has British roots, but some kind of feet-played ballgame has been around at least 4000 years, probably a lot longer.

after some chaos, two competing codes emerged - Association football ("soccer") and Rugby football ("rugger"). Rugger's most direct descendant is rugby union, but rugby league and american/candian football are also basically from rugger.

I'm more interested about why american football is called football when you play it mainly with your hands. "soccer" and "rugger" don't have word "foot" in them. Is it just ancient descendant of the original name where ball was played with your feet?

[Nick]

Which "football" you refer here?

I think football has been played since stone-ages in variety of different cultures. Modern version probably has British roots, but some kind of feet-played ballgame has been around at least 4000 years, probably a lot longer.

Yes, you're absolutely right. I guess Britain was where the systematic codifying of rules and forming of organised competition started in the mid-1800s (as far as I know, which may not be very far...).

I'm more interested about why american football is called football when you play it mainly with your hands. "soccer" and "rugger" don't have word "foot" in them. Is it just ancient descendant of the original name where ball was played with your feet?

Well, soccer started as slang for "Association football" and rugger was slang for "Rugby football". All the members of the rugby branch have more passing by hand than by foot - although I think the American branch is the most extreme. I think this is partly a consequence of the stricter offside, where for the most part players are required to be behind the ball.

[nppangband]

I'm more interested about why american football is called football when you play it mainly with your hands. "soccer" and "rugger" don't have word "foot" in them. Is it just ancient descendant of the original name where ball was played with your feet?

It is called football because it evolved from the sport that the rest of the world calls football (and us Americans call soccer). Like Rubgy, they tried out a sport where you could pick up the ball with your hands, run with it and teckle each other. But Rugby kind of stopped there where American Football added down and distance, the line of scrimmage, the forward pass, and countless commercial breaks.

[Timo Pietilä]

It is called football because it evolved from the sport that the rest of the world calls football (and us Americans call soccer). Like Rubgy, they tried out a sport where you could pick up the ball with your hands, run with it and teckle each other. But Rugby kind of stopped there where American Football added down and distance, the line of scrimmage, the forward pass, and countless commercial breaks.

...and bodyarmor that makes sir Anorexia the Geek look like The Hulk.

Maybe that's another commercial feature of American Football.

[Magnate]

The US may have lost against Ghana once. We've lost against Germany too many times to count. It's going to be horrible.

I was right. It was.

[Timo Pietilä]

Just passing by, had to answer this topic

I watch the games, but do not wish my country (Brasil) win, because:

Well, you got what you wished for.

Didn't see that match, but watched Uruguay and Ghana match. That was a real thriller. I feel sad for that last second penalty-kick missed Ghana guy. It must have felt like sky is falling and world just ended when he realized that that one in and they would have been in top four.

[Matthias]

Wow what a game by the germans. Too bad one of our best guys will miss the next match because of one careless second where the ball hit his arm. I really don't like the 2nd yellow card in the tournament rule

[Nick]

Wow what a game by the germans. Too bad one of our best guys will miss the next match because of one careless second where the ball hit his arm. I really don't like the 2nd yellow card in the tournament rule

Yes, very impressive. Surely they must be favourites now - I wonder what the RNG thinks of that...

[Matthias]

Awww, looks like the germans were too afraid. Maybe because they feared the RNG... Good job@spain you were the better team

[Atriel]

> Atriel! It's nice to see another brazilian here, but I have to disagree with you in some points

Nice to meet ya

> I like to watch the games and every time I talk about how much I like soccer someone come and say that I'm alienated and start talking about politics. Here in Brazil we got some kind of pseudo-ideology that says that I'm not supposed to like the World Cup because of some previous bad government that used what we do better to explore its own popularity. This makes me feel really bad because I really love the country where I live and people say that Brazilians are patriots only when the topic is soccer.

Well, I said I wouldn't wish Brazil's victory (even thou I am not like every other Brazilian that "breathe" soccer, in my soul, I wished victory) because victory would be bad to us. Just take a look at the facts and statistics of the following years we lost the cup. Soccer *do* have an immense impact on everything here. Losing the cup = population a lil bit sadder, then angrier. Politicians now have to find another ways to keep everybody appeased, and behave better, because the loss made everybody more aware of what's wrong. I've read at least a dozen social science's thesis about that. As an English / ex-social sciences student, I'm very aware and very close to this sort of knowledge.

> And offside is not a stupid rule
Actually, if you research a lil deeper, you'll see that Offside outside the world cup was mostly ignored in many of the smaller ( intercity ) leagues as is now till ~early eighties, as few liked the rule as it was by the sixties, so the rule became different here by that time in most intercity cups (offsides only when the kick came from the other half of the field), if not vastly ignored in most but the more obvious cases (a camper by the opponent goal). I am lucky to have seen some Bra-Pel's by that time, when there "was no" offside.

[nppangband]

Awww, looks like the germans were too afraid. Maybe because they feared the RNG... Good job@spain you were the better team

I blame the octopus. I was watching and I couldn't believe I was watching the same team that destroyed Argentina last week. They looked so timid.

But yes, Spain is playing great. I thought the Germans were going to add thier 4th title but Spain was the only team that had a chance of beating them. I look forward to the final on Sunday.