curse scrolls

[relic]

I never got too far in NetHack, can you elaborate?

Sorry, I read your post a bit hasty. I read it as if you suggested that wands/staves/rods could be cursed, but after rereading I see that you don't.

Well, all, (or most) items in NH are either cursed, uncursed or blessed, with corresponding bad, neutral or good effects when they are used. This has never existed in Angband, so introducing this would be something new. But since I misread, my comment is moot.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

I think this probably aligns with mostly with my thinking. The only difference is that if possible I'd like cursed items to be more than a "once-a-game" issue, which means that I don't really like flavored bad items.

I think there are too many flavoured bad items in Vanilla for id-by-use. I think I've removed most of them.

However, I want to keep *some* nasty effects in Fay. In Fay, characters with high INT+WIS get more Identify effects, and I want braindead characters to be appropriately punished!

Actually you might have the same thing in mind -- punishing characters with low INT or low magical skills -- because you did mention "bad effects for failing"? How about giving some concrete examples of that?

Also, what kind of tactics could the player use to deal with cursed good scrolls? What matters most is tactically interesting gameplay.

[fizzix]

You want Angband to move into NetHack direction, eh?

I never got too far in NetHack, can you elaborate?

I think I've managed to make the gameplay a bit more interesting in Fay. (Ey already had different Curse Equipment scrolls, and I've tweaked them further.)

A Curse Equipment scroll has about 2/5 chance of cursing each worn equipment. So in order to identify the scroll by use you want to be wearing at least two or three pieces of "bad" equipment. If no equipment gets cursed, you will not learn the scroll's type.

There are also dangerous summoning scrolls of several different types to make getting naked before reading scrolls more dangerous! I just realized that I should probably make one extra tweak: the level of summoned monsters should depend on your maximum depth, not your current depth, to make reading scrolls in town more risky.

I agree it can be a bit tedious. But because there are big enough risks and rewards involved, I think identifying scrolls by use is actually quite fun, for me at least.

Two caveats:
- Identify scrolls/effects need to be quite scarce to make id by use worth it.
- If there are too many scroll types, identifying by use gets tedious. For this reason I've removed lots of "boring" scrolls and potions from the game.

I think this probably aligns with mostly with my thinking. The only difference is that if possible I'd like cursed items to be more than a "once-a-game" issue, which means that I don't really like flavored bad items. I'd rather have the bad items be replaced with bad effects for failing/cursed good items.

ID by use is certainly fun, and I'd really hate for optimal gameplay to require forced scrounging for ?ID because the risks are too great.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

It has always seemed to me that the curse weapon and curse armor scrolls are very poor gameplay. The main problem is that they can be avoided, and the way of avoiding them is either hackish (Identify) or tedious (remove all armor, read unknown scroll). They also do not agree to me with what a cursed item should be.

I think I've managed to make the gameplay a bit more interesting in Fay. (Ey already had different Curse Equipment scrolls, and I've tweaked them further.)

A Curse Equipment scroll has about 2/5 chance of cursing each worn equipment. So in order to identify the scroll by use you want to be wearing at least two or three pieces of "bad" equipment. If no equipment gets cursed, you will not learn the scroll's type.

There are also dangerous summoning scrolls of several different types to make getting naked before reading scrolls more dangerous! I just realized that I should probably make one extra tweak: the level of summoned monsters should depend on your maximum depth, not your current depth, to make reading scrolls in town more risky.

I agree it can be a bit tedious. But because there are big enough risks and rewards involved, I think identifying scrolls by use is actually quite fun, for me at least.

Two caveats:
- Identify scrolls/effects need to be quite scarce to make id by use worth it.
- If there are too many scroll types, identifying by use gets tedious. For this reason I've removed lots of "boring" scrolls and potions from the game.

[relic]

You want Angband to move into NetHack direction, eh?

[fizzix]

It has always seemed to me that the curse weapon and curse armor scrolls are very poor gameplay. The main problem is that they can be avoided, and the way of avoiding them is either hackish (Identify) or tedious (remove all armor, read unknown scroll). They also do not agree to me with what a cursed item should be.

However, the effects of the curse scroll is ok. Having something blast an item in your inventory is pretty good gameplay, albeit frustrating. (The sticky-item part sucks though, but we've discussed that ad nauseam already).

So, a crazy idea I had would be to remove the curse scrolls as they currently exist, and then give a small chance for every scroll to be cursed. A cursed scroll, when read, does the appropriate effect, but also invokes a curse. The curse can scale with the level of the scroll. So reading a cursed ?phase will have a small effect, like causing 5 turn blindness, but reading a cursed ?mass banishment could have a large effect, like junking your nice artifact sword. This also means that timed effect curses or small damage curses will have a place, since some scrolls will be read in tricky situations.

The idea came to me while thinking about scrolls, but it can also apply to spells and other consumables etc. Having cursed wands/rods/staves sucks because of stacking issues. But we certainly could have items and spells backfire, which for gameplay purposes is basically the same. If you fail to cast a spell or use an item, you have to roll again. If you fail twice, the item/spell backfires.

All consumables: scrolls, staves, wands, rods, potions have slightly different characteristics, so curses/backfirings can be tailored appropriately.