Even more thoughts on v4

[Magnate]

Why are extra blows/shots referred to as "attack speed" and "shooting speed" in the dump?

Because the string is constructed with "it boosts your %s".

[ekolis]

Why are extra blows/shots referred to as "attack speed" and "shooting speed" in the dump?

[Derakon]

Victory! Morgoth is dead. The turning point was finding a Great Axe of Fury (4d4) (+15,+16) with +2 blows. It gave me 446 damage/round, which is enough for me to be willing to go after Sauron and Morgoth. Sauron used up 7 !Healing and some !CCW; Morgoth used up 6 !Heal, 9 !*Heal*, 3 !Life, 2 ?Banish, 2 ?MassBanish, and 6 ?Destruction. The fight with Morgoth was a bit hairier than it should have been because I got gorged on healing potions several times. I thought they didn't contribute nutrition any more? Otherwise I'd have a much bigger stock of big heals left; I was drinking !*Heal* at 700HP sometimes because the alternative was chugging multiple !CCW and tanking my speed.

Morgoth's drop sucked, incidentally. For posterity:
* Amulet of Weaponmastery (+4,+5) <+3>
* Crown of Serenity with +6 searching
* Jewel Encrusted Crown of +1 INT, +2 WIS/CHA, rFire/Cold, sustCHA, ESP
* Morgoth's Crown, natch.
* White DSM Full Helm of Certainty (+2 WIS, rCold/Lite/Dark, pFear/Conf)
* Massive Tulwar of Demonbane (3d4) (+2,+0) (slay undead/dragons, *slay* demons, venombrand)
* Keen Great Axe of Frost (4d4) (+9,+9) (weak fire/frostbrands, rCold)
* Morgoth's Hammer, also natch.

Though it was better than Sauron's drop: a Tough Cap of Seeing! Wooooooo.

The damage display for Morgoth's hammer appears to be broken. It's shown as too heavy for me to use, even given my 18/*** STR, but also says that with +0 STR and +0 DEX I'd get 3.3 blows/round. I've copied my winner savefile to here for repro.

Best items I found all game:

Ruby Great Axe of Fury (4d4) (+15,+16) <+4,+2>
+4 STR
+2 attack speed
Slays animals, weak firebrand
pFear, aggravates
521 damage vs. animals/fire-vulnerable, 446 otherwise

Sling of Buckland (x3) (+32,+26) <+1,+2>
+1 shooting speed, shooting power
+2 DEX

Helm 'Rutumith' [7,+17] <+3>
+3 INT/WIS/CON
rCold/Pois/Lite
pBlind, sustain DEX, FA

Gold Dragon Scale Set of Gauntlets of Power (+1,+4) [3,+11] <+3>
+3 STR
rSound
Featherfalling

(From here on, these were not used in the final fight, but were still notable)

Keen Zweihander of Venom (3d6) (+11,+14) <+2,+1>
+2 attack speed
+1 WIS
Slay dragons, venombrand
544 damage vs. dragons/poison-vulnerable, 389 otherwise.
Was enchanted up from ~(+4,+11) by hand. 

Crown of Certainty [0,+0]
pConf
sustain all (bodykeeping + soulkeeping affixes)
ESP

Ring Mail of Elvenkind (-2) [38,+10] <+2>
+2 Stealth
rAcid/Fire/Elec/Cold/Nether
Notable only because it was my body armor for pretty much the
entire game from ~2000' onwards.

And a few last random notes:

* Iron chests can burn. Presumably steel ones can too.

* I had a Staff of Mapping with 5 charges. I sold it to the magic store. They recharged it to 6. I bought it. I sold it to them again. They recharged it to 10. Bwuh?

* Total artifacts found: 10. Total artifacts the game claims I've seen: 22.

* I actually picked up Purifications and Healing and it got added to my seen-artifacts list (though I didn't count it among the 22), though no other spellbooks are there. So that explains why Mordenkainen's got dropped twice -- I never picked it up.

[Blue Baron]

Anyone else getting a strange inventory display bug where the first slot dedicated to the quiver doesn't show up when you press 'i'? If I have more than 40 ammo quivered the second and third slots show fine, but there's a blank line where the first 'in Quiver:' line should be.

Don't know if this might also be related to the recent disappearance of the burden information...

hmm it's showing the quiver items because the 'i' command was changed from just showing a list to being a menu that uses get_item(). but I don't know why get_item() is showing quiver items at all on the inventory page.

also the inventory weights are not showing up because I missed coping a couple lines when I moved it from the Sept. 24 master to the Nov. 05 master.

[Malak Darkhunter]

I think im noticing a bug with detection, I'm using a rod of detection and when it goes through the process and detects monsters, when I hit the next key for -more- I see the monster move for 1 turn before they dissapear off the screen.

Also just dropped down to level 20 and it generated one of those square vaults that is basically the whole level, cast detection it revealed all the items on the level, without being fuzzy.

[Derakon]

Ah yes, I've been getting that. Happens only in the standard inventory view; separate windows dedicated to inventory display the first quiver slot fine. Sorry I kept forgetting to mention it.

EDIT: excellent news, Magnate! So next time I'll be able to see exactly what I'm missing out on when an artifact gets silently lost forever.

(Seriously, though, I'm glad to hear that the bug's been reproduced)

[Nomad]

Anyone else getting a strange inventory display bug where the first slot dedicated to the quiver doesn't show up when you press 'i'? If I have more than 40 ammo quivered the second and third slots show fine, but there's a blank line where the first 'in Quiver:' line should be.

Don't know if this might also be related to the recent disappearance of the burden information...

[Magnate]

Then it appears to be a matter of the good artifacts simply not getting generated then.

I've uploaded my save here. On the off chance that my squelch settings are somehow involved in this, my preferences file is here. You can check which artifacts I'm supposed to have found by making a character dump and checking the notes for the string "Found the".

Sounds fine to me. Identifying the book should just be a matter of picking it up, right? Even if it isn't, it's not like identify is hard to come by.

Thank you - got the save and looking into it now. I've fixed the spellbook issue (they now ID on pickup like all other arts), and also the ring of light issue (you no longer get stray commas from unknown pvals). Along with the chardump bug, this is the last major one I know of.

EDIT: finally! I can reproduce the chardump bug. No idea what it is (will need Noz's help because it's UTF-8 related), but can now at least start work on it.

[Magnate]

I'm certainly willing to have a go at doing some tweaking; what's EGO_TVALS_MAX set to at the moment? I can add some hit/dam bonuses to the combat affixes while I'm at it and see if that helps too.

Don't worry about that - please tweak away and use whatever granularity you like. I'll make sure that the max is set high enough when I merge it. Don't worry about the combat affixes for the moment - I've pushed a number of small changes which I think will add up to a very significant improvement - in fact I'm a little worried that I might have overshot. But I'm doing another stats run, which should finish tomorrow, so I'll report then.

[fizzix]

* It sounds like we may need a supercharge mechanic for affixes. Being limited to 6 affixes unless the item gets guaranteed-good is pretty limiting. Oh, and regarding themes: I hardly ever see the more complicated ones (Holy Avenger, Gondolin, etc.). I've seen, I think, 1 HA, 1 Defender, and 2 Gondolins all game.

I actually think this is fine also. The difference is that these weapons (outside of defender) should be awesome, when in fact, the average HA, defender, gondolin pales in comparison to a standard artifact.

[Derakon]

I can promise you that the randart code hasn't changed since 3.1.2, except for small tweaks and bugfixes. There's nothing that stops randarts being as powerful as they've ever been, except that +3 shots/blows are now disallowed.

Then it appears to be a matter of the good artifacts simply not getting generated then.

I've uploaded my save here. On the off chance that my squelch settings are somehow involved in this, my preferences file is here. You can check which artifacts I'm supposed to have found by making a character dump and checking the notes for the string "Found the".

This should be a simple matter of removing EASY_KNOW, but I don't know if that will have other consequences. I'll try it and see. It will mean that they drop as simply "Book of High Magic/Prayer" and you won't know which it is until you pick it up.

Sounds fine to me. Identifying the book should just be a matter of picking it up, right? Even if it isn't, it's not like identify is hard to come by.

[Nomad]

Please feel free to tear ego_item.txt apart and re-make it with finer gradations of when something becomes good or merely average instead of great or uber - the only limit is EGO_TVALS_MAX and I'm happy to increase that if it's necessary to improve balance. I'm not sure how you could implement your second paragraph other than by thinking slightly differently about the gradations, but again please feel free to do so.

I'm certainly willing to have a go at doing some tweaking; what's EGO_TVALS_MAX set to at the moment? I can add some hit/dam bonuses to the combat affixes while I'm at it and see if that helps too.

[Magnate]

* I'm used to playing randarts; I've been doing so since 3.1.2 or so. These randarts are definitely worse than the ones I'm used to using, though it may simply be that all of the good randarts just aren't getting generated for some reason.

I can promise you that the randart code hasn't changed since 3.1.2, except for small tweaks and bugfixes. There's nothing that stops randarts being as powerful as they've ever been, except that +3 shots/blows are now disallowed.

* It sounds like we may need a supercharge mechanic for affixes. Being limited to 6 affixes unless the item gets guaranteed-good is pretty limiting.

Agreed - I was messing with this on the train this morning too. I've added a random check that lifts the affix level for normal drops (randint(500) < 3 * depth), which means that by the late game half of normal drops will have access to uber affixes (along with most good drops and all great drops).

I then changed the number of affixes to be dependent on the affix level rather than explicitly tied to the original good/great bools. This means that normal drops which pass the random checks will effectively get elevated to the number of affixes of good or great drops. This is quite a small change but could have quite a significant effect on the quality of drops. Once I've implemented myshkin's idea of adding hit/dam bonuses on certain magical suffices (like Of Disruption), I'm going to run some new stats.

Oh, and regarding themes: I hardly ever see the more complicated ones (Holy Avenger, Gondolin, etc.). I've seen, I think, 1 HA, 1 Defender, and 2 Gondolins all game.

How many would you expect to see? Think back to 3.0.6, and try to forget the deluge of egos from 3.1.0 onwards. Back in 3.0.x I would frequently go whole games to ~3000' without seeing any of those.

* Unfound-but-lost artifacts: Gwildais, Earniont, Elegrin, Mataldand, Sindi, Kelth, Natar, Iluin, Daire, Careglin. All weapons, generation chance ranging from 20 to 99, power rating from 177 to 401. I can't say anything more about them because the artifact spoiler is broken.

Pls could you post or send me your save file? I'll look into this - it's quite urgent.

Kaypy: you're right, I didn't bother actually picking the books up. So maybe that's why they got re-generated.

Hmmm. I think this is because they have EASY_KNOW (they're the only artifacts that do). This means that you learn them from afar, rather than on pickup like other artifacts. So they're preserved because you haven't picked them up, yet still known. This should be a simple matter of removing EASY_KNOW, but I don't know if that will have other consequences. I'll try it and see. It will mean that they drop as simply "Book of High Magic/Prayer" and you won't know which it is until you pick it up.

[Magnate]

I think we really need to take a detailed look at the T: lines in ego_item.txt and redefine the levels at which affixes are considered great/good/average. For instance, base four resists are great at levels 1 to 25, good from 26 to 100. I really think there's a point pre-100 where they ought to be considered only average. Similarly, things like FA and Regen on weapons are 'great' all the way through, as are basic slays other than orcs and trolls.

I'd say the issue is that the affix levels are currently set at an absolute value for that affix ("how useful is this property to have at this depth?") when it should be more of a relative value ("how useful is this property considering the likelihood you already have a source of it and/or the better options available for the slot at this depth?"). Which is obviously a lot harder to judge, but definitely a more realistic estimate of whether a player will really consider a weapon with FA on it 'great' at dlevel 99.

Please feel free to tear ego_item.txt apart and re-make it with finer gradations of when something becomes good or merely average instead of great or uber - the only limit is EGO_TVALS_MAX and I'm happy to increase that if it's necessary to improve balance. I'm not sure how you could implement your second paragraph other than by thinking slightly differently about the gradations, but again please feel free to do so.

[Magnate]

I'd expect a number of the affixes (certainly of Disruption, and I'd lean towards Slay Foo as well) to come automatically with +to-hit/to-dam. Whether that means giving more affixes C: lines with positive to-hit/to-dam, or forcing some affixes to pull in others that have to-hit/to-dam bonuses, I'm not sure. I currently prefer the former.

Great minds think alike - I had exactly this thought on the train this morning after posting.