v4: whither DSM?

[Magnate]

(There's no v4 forum yet, so I suggest anyone starting a thread about v4 prefixes the title with v4: ...)

So, the latest version of v4 (6f60915) allows Dragon Scale prefixes on armour, as well as helms, boots, gauntlets and shields. The DSM base items have gone.

What's the same: the Dragon Scale prefixes grant the resists (and ignores) that you would expect. So white DS gives RES_COLD | IGNORE_COLD and so on. They also give -2 to hit.

What's different:
- the AC adjustment is not a flat +10 bonus any more. Instead, DS prefixes increase both base AC and weight of the item. The lower DS types (blue, white, black) only add a few percent, which might not even be noticeable on low-AC items like boots and gloves. The higher types (MH, Balance, Power) add much more (30-60%) - but they are heavy. (The old DSMs increased in both AC and weight as you went up the series.)
- they don't give any breath effects, at the moment.

This thread is to ask how people would like to see DSM breaths handled in v4. Simply replicating the previous breaths on all items would be overpowered - you could end up being able to breathe five times in a row. So I've come up with some suggestions - if you prefer something different ("none of the above"), please say what.

[mumbles]

keep the old damage but make a player have a dragon helmet and body armour, as you need a mouth to breath from

[Magnate]

keep the old damage but make a player have a dragon helmet and body armour, as you need a mouth to breath from

Why are the best ideas always a total bastard to code?

[mumbles]

might as well make @ eat a rod of fireballs too, seems logical

[Nick]

O/FA have artifact sets - combinations of artifacts which give a bonus when you wear them all. You could have a similar sort of arrangement where a DS item gains an activation if a second one is worn.

This could be generalised to all sorts of stuff - matching leather hat and boots give a +CHA bonus, say...

[Nomad]

Restricting the breath weapons to dragon scale helms seems logical.

[Magnate]

O/FA have artifact sets - combinations of artifacts which give a bonus when you wear them all. You could have a similar sort of arrangement where a DS item gains an activation if a second one is worn.

This could be generalised to all sorts of stuff - matching leather hat and boots give a +CHA bonus, say...

Yes - I too have planned to borrow this from S! It hadn't occurred to me that it could be extended beyond artifacts - but that's a great idea for this. If that's the preferred solution I'll happily try it out.

[kaypy]

Use a pval or a couple of near-identical affixes to allow varied damage amounts. Body armour should do most, followed by helms (and shields if available?), then anything else.

Items from deeper in the dungeon should also be eligable for higher damage.

An alternative approach to this might also be to make the breath damage scale with the total AC of the item...

[edit] What I'm aiming at here, in case it isn't obvious, is a breath attack that can avoid both being overpowered too early and worthless in endgame. So an early-game DSM has early-game damage and late-game DSM has late-game damage, without necessarily being different types. Hooking inappropriate armour types into the equation is just a bonus.

[Starhawk]

It would be interesting if you only had ONE breath activation, but it became more powerful as you added more dragonscale items to your kit.

[ViJay]

How about making the breath stronger if you wear more of the same Dragonscale type..and make the recharge type longer the more pieces you wear. Combining could give a mixed breath or just 1 of the types but less strong than pieces of 1 type..

[Max Stats]

might as well make @ eat a rod of fireballs too, seems logical

But the heartburn would be nasty.

[Derakon]

Keep in mind that there's zero point in making this complicated. @'s not going to run around in multiple bits of dragonscale armor all of the same color just to get a snazzy breath weapon.

I'd say just give each individual piece of armor its own breath weapon, optionally scaling damage dealt by armor type and item depth. If the player really wants to run around wearing just dragonscale armor so they have the ability to breath a middling-powered set of attacks several times in a row, hey, more power to them.

[bron]

I think the breath activation should just be eliminated. It has never figured into a decision to wear (or not) a piece of DSM in any one of my games; it is just an unnecessary extra bonus for the player.

In fact, if you *want* there to be a useful DSM activation, a far more interesting choice would be to have it activate for additional temporary resistance. Warriors in particular have a hard time getting that extra layer of resist, especially for electricity. But I think an even better choice is to eliminate the activation entirely.

[half]

I think the breath activation should just be eliminated. It has never figured into a decision to wear (or not) a piece of DSM in any one of my games; it is just an unnecessary extra bonus for the player.

In fact, if you *want* there to be a useful DSM activation, a far more interesting choice would be to have it activate for additional temporary resistance. Warriors in particular have a hard time getting that extra layer of resist, especially for electricity. But I think an even better choice is to eliminate the activation entirely.

I was going to post to say exactly the same thing.

Dragon armour can be better than normal by offering magical resistance (permanent and perhaps temporary) and by being more supple and less noisy than metal armour (lighter? smaller penalties to hit? smaller penalties to stealth if those get implemented? perhaps just make it apply to items that are normally made from leather and make them a bit more robust?).

[bio_hazard]

Why not have different activations for different pieces of equipment.

Helm- detect dragons (or breath)
Armor- Berserk? Temp AC Boost?
Shield- Temporary Resist
Gloves- bolt/ball/temp weapon brand?
Boots- ??? maybe detect treasure?

I also like the "breath gets more powerful/more damage types with more dragon scale item" option.