Z+Angband version 0.2.2 beta released; looking forward

[JuergenF]

I just tried again. (BTW I'm on Ubuntu 9.04 ATM)

I do the usual

./configure
make
sudo make install

After that starting 'zangband' from the terminal at first it doesn't find mg_info.txt and on second try 's_info.txt'. But I can copy those manually.

After that I can start the game and create a character, but <ctrl><s> doesn't save (no message) and <ctrl><x> ends the game, but doesn't save (message: 'score file not available')

./configure seems to have no options for a local build (without install), but HEY I just had an inspiration: you probably just went into src and used makefile.std! Odd it took so long, I usually do just that. I'll try that now...
[EDIT]Doesn't work... [/EDIT]

Still, if you know a bit autoconf-stuff (I don't ) maybe you could look into that?

[d_m]

Hi again,

In general, I often run variants out of their source directories rather than installing them. In this case, after running make, "zangband" is sitting in the base directory, so you can just run it as "./zangband"

I also found that CTRL-S does not save, but CTRL-X does save and quit (for me). I also did not have any problems with stuff not being copied (because of course none of it got copied

This variant seems like it currently has a lot of problems, at least on Linux. The Makefile hardcodes a call to configure (or seems to) which is pretty junky. Also, the source spits a lot of warnings. None of these are showstoppers, obviously, but they don't inspire confidence.

Good luck!

[Mangojuice]

I just tried again. (BTW I'm on Ubuntu 9.04 ATM)

I do the usual

./configure
make
sudo make install

After that starting 'zangband' from the terminal at first it doesn't find mg_info.txt and on second try 's_info.txt'. But I can copy those manually.

After that I can start the game and create a character, but <ctrl><s> doesn't save (no message) and <ctrl><x> ends the game, but doesn't save (message: 'score file not available')

./configure seems to have no options for a local build (without install), but HEY I just had an inspiration: you probably just went into src and used makefile.std! Odd it took so long, I usually do just that. I'll try that now...
[EDIT]Doesn't work... [/EDIT]

Still, if you know a bit autoconf-stuff (I don't ) maybe you could look into that?

The Autoconf stuff is inherited from Zangband, I never really understood it and I never altered it. Do ./configure and then just do "make", not "make install." Z+ may not properly protect user save files and coordinate score files among multiple users, but you can play it solo.

[ekolis]

Hey Mangojuice! Welcome back! Any plans for future development of Z+?

[murphy]

Hi,

ctrl-s is typically a shell command, if you are playing in a console window then this keystroke is probably being trapped by the shell. try ^s (the carat symbol, then 's')

Murphy S.

[d_m]

ctrl-s is typically a shell command, if you are playing in a console window then this keystroke is probably being trapped by the shell. try ^s (the carat symbol, then 's')

In general that's true.

I happen to know that I have disabled xon/xoff support in my shell so that I can use CTRL-s in bash to search through the history along with CTRL-r. Also Vanilla and most variants I've played in GCU all support CTRL-s to save.

Your suggestion of "^ s" does work... I guess Z+ has issues with CTRL-s in GCU mode.

[Pete Mack]

It's not a problem with GCU mode; it's a problem with your TTY settings.

try messing around with stty mode. (You want to disable tty stop/pause.)

[Mangojuice]

Hey Mangojuice! Welcome back! Any plans for future development of Z+?

Well, the last thing I was working on was a "competition mode" feature where you would be allowed to restart a game but with re-randomized object flavors (but otherwise, everything the same, down even to the state of the randomizer). But it turned into such a minefield of bugs that I gave up on it and haven't gone back since. I have some bugs on my list to fix, too.

Since then I've thought of several cool ideas for a 'band, but they're very non-traditional. And they would have had to be coded from scratch and I wasn't up to the task. Specifically:

* Coding a 'band entirely from scratch in Java, for ultimate portability
* A 'band with an adventuring party rather than a single player, with elements from the Ultima series and Final Fantasy

But none of these would be Z+.

[ekolis]

Hmm... there was once an Angband variant which had a party system... I think it was called "Guild" or somesuch?

What kind of FF influences were you thinking of, by chance? One time I tried to write a roguelike with an interesting skill/technique system I'd nicked from Final Fantasy Tactics... basically, instead of levelups or "skill points" providing special abilities (like spells and combat feats), you got them by mastering the use of specific items - e.g. the more XP gained while wielding a "rod of striking", the more points you get toward memorizing the "force bolt" spell (and thereby being able to use it without actually wielding the rod).

[Mangojuice]

Hmm... there was once an Angband variant which had a party system... I think it was called "Guild" or somesuch?

What kind of FF influences were you thinking of, by chance? One time I tried to write a roguelike with an interesting skill/technique system I'd nicked from Final Fantasy Tactics... basically, instead of levelups or "skill points" providing special abilities (like spells and combat feats), you got them by mastering the use of specific items - e.g. the more XP gained while wielding a "rod of striking", the more points you get toward memorizing the "force bolt" spell (and thereby being able to use it without actually wielding the rod).

Basically, everything. I would like to make a 'band version of FFX or FFVII, meaning, a dungeon-crawl version of those games with a randomized component. I like the way the power curve works in FF games: you power up fast and it keeps going for a long time that way. So in the end you're beating things that would have pasted you a million times over when you started. I like the status and element systems. I like having interesting ways to get rich. Call me nuts or anti-'band, but I like save points and the idea of going back to them, it's a good intermediate between backup-and-save-whenever and the hard-core Angband way of doing things. I like the idea of boss fights feeling like they matter in a plot, not just occurring at random. The one thing I wonder is whether a final-fantasy style game could be interesting without the flashy graphics they've always had.

I felt similar about the Ultima games for a while, too, after replaying Ultima V and VI. They're very rich worlds, with a good game system, but not a lot of depth of play: the monsters aren't very interesting and the power scale is too short.

But in both cases what proved too daunting was the idea of having more of a plot than Z+ has. I really WANT a computer game that can tell me a new story every time I play it, but I don't know if I can program that.

[ekolis]

Heh, if only Dwarf Fortress's adventure mode was implemented a bit more

[Jude]

So is there an in-game (or hell, it doesn't even have to be in-game) guide to the tiers of each school of magic and how much each character can learn? I'd like to be able to know, when I'm learning spells, exactly what my capacity is for each tier and my total amount of picks is. If I do happen to get a character to a very high level I don't want to find that I can't pick any of the good spells because I used most/all of my picks already without knowing which is in which tier.

I remember in the last version I played, it would notify you if you were about to use your last pick from a tier, but other than that there was no indication of where the tier divisions were. Since I mainly play as a warrior-mage mix (paladin, death paladin or chaos warrior) my picks are more limited and I'd like to be able to know.

[ekolis]

*wonders if Z+ development will ever pick up again*

[Mangojuice]

*wonders if Z+ development will ever pick up again*

There are two barriers to it. First, I don't really have a lot I'm interested in doing that's incremental. I have a lot of "big ideas" that I might do someday but would probably be an entirely new variant if it ever happens. Second, and more importantly, I'm in the middle of an extended move from one place to another. I replaced my computer and have all my development files but haven't tried to compile on the new system at all.

If it's going to happen again someday I'd like to get some detailed feedback from people about the new spell system, since that was the latest big change.

[Mangojuice]

So is there an in-game (or hell, it doesn't even have to be in-game) guide to the tiers of each school of magic and how much each character can learn? I'd like to be able to know, when I'm learning spells, exactly what my capacity is for each tier and my total amount of picks is. If I do happen to get a character to a very high level I don't want to find that I can't pick any of the good spells because I used most/all of my picks already without knowing which is in which tier.

I remember in the last version I played, it would notify you if you were about to use your last pick from a tier, but other than that there was no indication of where the tier divisions were. Since I mainly play as a warrior-mage mix (paladin, death paladin or chaos warrior) my picks are more limited and I'd like to be able to know.

Yup. Go to the knowledge menu ('~' and select "spell knowledge".) It'll tell you how many slots you have at each tier and what level of spells those tiers are good for. It's also a good way to keep track of any spell focuses you happen to use.

The tiers are always the same: levels 1-10, then 1-20, 1-30, etc. But for different classes, the level of each spell may be different. You can look in /lib/edit/s_info.txt if you want a spoiler for what levels all the spells are for each class.