A place for FA questions and ideas for improvement

[Nick]

What's the difference between 'Increase stat' and 'increase *stat*'?
I'm guessing that the *** is better, but how much better?

The ordinary ones will only increase the internal value of the stat up to 18. To go above that you need *stat*.

Also, found my very first potion of 'restore mana'. Is this a full or partial restoration?

Full, and they're generally something to stash for the endgame.

And, just a question of choice (ent, priest CL24). Currently exploring AR29, which is just about all I can handle. Currently have a Cloak of Stealth (+2 to stealth) and have the opportunity to buy a Cloak of Protection from Shrapnel (+38%). Which do you think will serve me better? They have about equal pluses to AC and and both would be my only form of stealth/prot from shard.

I'd probably go with stealth, unless you find yourself getting really hammered by shards breathers.

What's the deal with protection from acid (potion of acid/elec)? It gave 55% resistance according to the 'C'haracter screen, but the water hounds I was fighting was damaging my equipment with almost every attack.

Acid resistance will reduce but not remove the chance of stuff being damaged by acid. Water hounds are high on my list of monsters to avoid.

[buzzkill]

*POTIONS* of stat gain

What's the difference between 'Increase stat' and 'increase *stat*'?
I'm guessing that the *** is better, but how much better?

Also, found my very first potion of 'restore mana'. Is this a full or partial restoration?

And, just a question of choice (ent, priest CL24). Currently exploring AR29, which is just about all I can handle. Currently have a Cloak of Stealth (+2 to stealth) and have the opportunity to buy a Cloak of Protection from Shrapnel (+38%). Which do you think will serve me better? They have about equal pluses to AC and and both would be my only form of stealth/prot from shard.

What's the deal with protection from acid (potion of acid/elec)? It gave 55% resistance according to the 'C'haracter screen, but the water hounds I was fighting was damaging my equipment with almost every attack.

[Seany C]

>>I just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and if there are any items to be found that aside form the normal variety of rings and amulets and armors that will help this druid kick his game up a notch. Maybe something he could wield and still fight bare handed. A set of gloves or boots (brass knuckels of extra punches) or maybe just something to convey some resistance that could be equipped in the 'a' equipment slot.
>>

I'm sure I've seen brass knuckles in a variant but not this one -yet. Dealing with the lack of 'extras' that you would get from a weapon is a problem for the early-mid-level druid, esp. with the "difficult" races (High-Elf, etc) where every other class gets a weapon with SI, FA, etc...

The best advice I can give is save up your cash and keep an eye out in the Black Market for rings of FA and SI - or hope that Ulfast drops gloves of FA or a Helm of Seeing. You can get the necessary resists eventually - it just requires a lucky find or two...

[buzzkill]

The Drouble with Druids

Has anyone else had this problem?

I'm playing my first note-worthy druid. Currently CL20 DL20. Bare handed damage is 3 blows at 20 per blow average. Bare handed has been my primary attack since the begining.

It seems that every time a find a nice weapon it's damage just doesn't stand up to what a can dish out bare handed and therefore isn't wort wielding. Most recently I had 2 finds. A Saber of Noldor and a Spiked Club Holy Avenger. These are both nice finds that do nearly (but not quite) the same damage as my weaponless attacks, with slightly higher skill bonuses. The Saber grants +1 STR,CON,DEX and SEE INVIS and FREE ACT. The Club grants WIS+3, AC+2 and SEE INVIS and SUST CON. As wonderful as it all sounds I find myself still fighting bare handed (because my bare handed attacks often induce CONFUSION in my opponents) and carry one of the other weapons in my pack in case I happen need the SEE INVIS or FREE ACT (which is not very often).

I just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and if there are any items to be found that aside form the normal variety of rings and amulets and armors that will help this druid kick his game up a notch. Maybe something he could wield and still fight bare handed. A set of gloves or boots (brass knuckels of extra punches) or maybe just something to convey some resistance that could be equipped in the 'a' equipment slot.

[Nick]

Stair-scumming is an interesting one, because for thralls and some of the advanced races, it's really necessary. I can imagine devising some sort of punishment for repeated stair-scumming, but I'm not sure if it's worth it. I like to leave things as player choice rather than maintainer choice as much as possible. This also applies to difficulty levels.

As for realism, that's always a ticklish question. My aim is to immerse the player in the game, and having features that jar works against that. On the other hand, what jars for individuals varies enormously - there are so many places where things are not commonsense (10 full plate armours take up 1 inventory slot, rings of CON +2 and +3 take up 2, for example). In the end, all I can really do is go with a compromise between what is feasible, what seems right to me and what other people think is right. I have made a lot of changes based on things that people have suggested/complained about; I guess the moral is that ranting is a valid option, and I may even listen

[Psi]

Being able to flip from one dungeon level to the previous and having it be completely different (and littered with treasures) should be a power reserved for god-like being, not the commoner.

I think when you re-enter a level you are supposed to enter at a different section rather than it being a different level. Only 'Alter reality' actually changes the level. I admit this doesn't fit with the wilderness as you clearly enter and leave the level in the same positions - however this is a *band and not Nethack (thank goodness).

[buzzkill]

Sure FA is hard (in places), but it is by no means impossible and the number of winners on the ladder is testament to that. Realism?!!!! It's a game based on a fictional world.

That's right! By no means impossible (so let's push harder..heeheehee). The fact that I, a virtual know-nothing, produced a character that I though could win (and was crushed, as it should be) is a testament to the games playability. Maybe realism isn't the right word. I'd like the game to be less un-true to reality, more common-sensical. Being able to flip from one dungeon level to the previous and having it be completely different (and littered with treasures) should be a power reserved for god-like being, not the commoner.

[Psi]

I like the game to be hard, but not impossible. FA is. I also like realism. Which FA lacks to a certain extent.

Sure FA is hard (in places), but it is by no means impossible and the number of winners on the ladder is testament to that. Realism?!!!! It's a game based on a fictional world.

To which... as I've said before (somewhere in this forum) I don't like the infallibility of detect traps, it just works too well. Nothing in life is perfect (certainly not a rod or staff you found in the LV 10 wilderness).

This is not 'life'. There is no reason why a magic device cannot be infallible. Why make the game more painful? Rather than spending one turn zapping your rod of detect traps, you'd have to waste several turns zapping your rod of detect *some* traps in the hope that you wouldn't miss any.

I'm done ranting for now.. more later..

I'm sure Nick is looking forward it already.

[Psi]

Perilous identify can sometimes hurt and confuse the player.

It is a lot worse than that if you are not a warrior though! Each use takes 20SP and if you have less than that, you get paralysed (with no check for FA). I lost a promising thrall to that. Storm Troll woke up and beat me to death before I got another turn.

[Mangojuice]

I don't like that the ability to stair scum exists either, and it could be easily solved. Just retain the prior dungeon level, monsters and all, for about 50-500 turns, determined randomly, so if someone were to try and scum they would simply keep revisiting the same level (with the monsters they just fled from waiting for them, as it should be). Or, simply lock the door to the previous level for 50-500 turns. Resting on a staircase should be forbidden (really, who camps out on a staircase, unless of course GOD himself couldn't follow you up the stairs, then maybe..) and resting to near a stairway could induce monster aggravation.... and/or maybe monsters that are aware of you should have the ability to "follow" you from one level to the next (just a bit of Pac-Man type delay when going through the tunnel/staircase).

I'm done ranting for now.. more later..

I thought about this for Z+Angband, but I felt like (1) making monsters able to follow you from level to level is a bit too nasty, but (2) keeping the previous dungeon level around for a period of time opens up a way to get a perfectly safe area to rest in, and then go back to a hard battle. I think, realistically, the way to solve the stair-scumming problem is to have the game detect it and punish you in an appropriate way. For instance, if the game detects that you've been stair-scumming recently, it may start generating levels with no treasure or monsters near you... until you stop stair-scumming and explore a level, and then it goes back to normal. Or, the safeguards keeping nearby monsters sleepy when you enter a level could be undone when you're stair-scumming, or the game could randomly have the stairs collapse behind you on occasion, or something.

Or, heck, it could just mark you as a cheater.

[Zikke]

Maybe there should be a ruleset for one difficulty and another ruleset for a harder "elite" difficulty. I personally don't have a problem being able to stair scum, use a perfect Detect Traps (it is magic after all, not subject to 'human' error), etc. I find the game hard enough as it is, but some people that want it really hard may need an elite mode setting (taken from Diablo games, there could be a better word for it). There could be alterations to the depth spawning of some monsters or reduced items, etc. for this mode.

Do any variants have different difficulty settings? (besides Ironman and the AI tweaks in the options)

[buzzkill]

I am planning to make changes to pseudo-ID in the next version (see, for example this thread in r.g.r.a), and the sort of things that are bothering you are the reason why.

I read the thread. I see change, but not necessarily improvement. You may just be complicating the system with no apparent benefit. And it's not that I was bothered by it (the weak pseudo-ID). I just didn't understand why it was so bad with this particular character. I know angband is a learn as you go game, but a better understanding of the rules would help greatly.

I like the game to be hard, but not impossible. FA is. I also like realism. Which FA lacks to a certain extent. When I had my first, self proclaimed, great character, I felt invincible. I thought I would march all the way to Angband 99-100 and battle to the death. Things didn't work out the way I thought they would, and I think he fell around level 30, far short of his goal. That's not what I wanted to happen, but that's OK. I don't cheat, backup my characters, stair scum (and let's face it people, stair scumming IS cheating)or kill FA in order to cheat death.

To which... as I've said before (somewhere in this forum) I don't like the infallibility of detect traps, it just works too well. Nothing in life is perfect (certainly not a rod or staff you found in the LV 10 wilderness). For those of you who would argue that at higher levels traps can kill you instantly, I agree (so what). Perfect detection, is not the answer. Would imperfect detection make the game impossible? I don't think so. And for many, the game is nearly impossible already, so why not make it realistic as well.

Pseudo-ID shouldn't be perfect either. Just because you feel an item is cursed or average or superb doesn't mean that it is, especially for low levels characters. Is my first level fighter so knowledgeable that he can determine with absolute certainty that the quarterstaff he just found is +0,+0 (average) rather than -1,-2 (cursed). I don't think so. If he was that smart his boots wouldn't be on the wrong feet and a novice mage wouldn't have just kicked his ass.

I don't like that the ability to stair scum exists either, and it could be easily solved. Just retain the prior dungeon level, monsters and all, for about 50-500 turns, determined randomly, so if someone were to try and scum they would simply keep revisiting the same level (with the monsters they just fled from waiting for them, as it should be). Or, simply lock the door to the previous level for 50-500 turns. Resting on a staircase should be forbidden (really, who camps out on a staircase, unless of course GOD himself couldn't follow you up the stairs, then maybe..) and resting to near a stairway could induce monster aggravation.... and/or maybe monsters that are aware of you should have the ability to "follow" you from one level to the next (just a bit of Pac-Man type delay when going through the tunnel/staircase).

I'm done ranting for now.. more later..

[Nick]

1) What is the difference between identify and "perilous identify"?

Perilous identify can sometimes hurt and confuse the player.

2) What exactly governs where the Staff of the Kelvar will illuminate? Is it a fixed radius around any "animal"-flagged creature?

Yes.

3) Is there any guideline on where to farm for the advanced spellbooks? I've been hanging around 50-60 looking through vaults but have only found a ton of the Resistances and Escapes, and 1 Grimoire of Power, and I'm almost clvl 50. Itching for more spells... Do I need to go deeper?

The exact depths and rarities are in lib/edit/object.txt; the short answer is yes

4) What's the level limit and guardian of Tol-In-Gaurhoth? Is this info listed somewhere? I couldn't find it anywhere in-game.

It's not available in-game - I guess partly as a surprise for new players. The deepest level is IIRC 85, and the guardian is Sauron.

[Zikke]

Out of curiosity, some questions regarding FA:

1) What is the difference between identify and "perilous identify"?

2) What exactly governs where the Staff of the Kelvar will illuminate? Is it a fixed radius around any "animal"-flagged creature?

3) Is there any guideline on where to farm for the advanced spellbooks? I've been hanging around 50-60 looking through vaults but have only found a ton of the Resistances and Escapes, and 1 Grimoire of Power, and I'm almost clvl 50. Itching for more spells... Do I need to go deeper?

4) What's the level limit and guardian of Tol-In-Gaurhoth? Is this info listed somewhere? I couldn't find it anywhere in-game.



Thanks!

[Nick]

Well, that explains a lot, but I still think that one should be able to take the time to closely examine a particular item and possibly get a "feel" for it.

I am planning to make changes to pseudo-ID in the next version (see, for example this thread in r.g.r.a), and the sort of things that are bothering you are the reason why.