Brainstorming time - what should the character screen look like?

[Carnivean]

One other thing that might make sense, especially for new players, would be to display both the % damage resisted and the maximum. In Vanilla, resistances don't stack, but this isn't intuitive. Also the % resisted isn't shown. If you resist Chaos, for example, you resist about 16% IIRC, and that is the maximum. FAA and others however stack resistances.

I've never played NPP (sorry), but I think that if you get this right, then you could set the standard that others will copy when they catch up.

[Derakon]

One other thing that might make sense, especially for new players, would be to display both the % damage resisted and the maximum. In Vanilla, resistances don't stack, but this isn't intuitive. Also the % resisted isn't shown. If you resist Chaos, for example, you resist about 16% IIRC, and that is the maximum. FAA and others however stack resistances.

In Vanilla, many resistances are variable. Each time you get hit by that element, damage gets cut by anywhere from 1/7th to 6/7ths.

Yes, this is utterly bizarre, thank you for noticing.

[buzzkill]

I can see where a radio chart or bar chart would have a better visual appeal, but wouldn't it be losing some usefulness?

Here's a (partial) screenshot of an actual spreadsheet I used for a winning DaJ character. Bare minimum required info, as this was entered and updated manually. I believe the first section is equipped items and ammo. Second section is carried swaps. Third is home inventory swaps.
More useful? YES. Somewhat confusing? Yes. Info still missing? yes.
If you could combine something like this with expanded mouseover info, I think you would really have something.

[nppangband]

One other thing that might make sense, especially for new players, would be to display both the % damage resisted and the maximum. In Vanilla, resistances don't stack, but this isn't intuitive. Also the % resisted isn't shown. If you resist Chaos, for example, you resist about 16% IIRC, and that is the maximum. FAA and others however stack resistances.

I've never played NPP (sorry), but I think that if you get this right, then you could set the standard that others will copy when they catch up.

My plan right now is to have a tooltip that completely explains the source of attack and the resist. For Resist Fire, a mouse hover over the label would bring up something like:

Fire attacks have a maximum damage of 1500 points. Depending on the type of ranged monster attack, the damage is based on either the monster's current hit points or spell power. Fire attacks can also destroy scrolls, arrows (etc). If the player has either a permanent or temporary resist they incur only 1/3 of the un-resisted damage amount, and it also helps protect inventory from damage. If the player has both permanent resist fire and a temporary active resist fire spell active, damage incurred is only 1/9 of the total un-resisted damage and the odds of player inventory being destroyed is further reduced.

[nppangband]

Since NPP now has access to real graphics, it should be possible to refine the classic display a bit: You could essentially just render a table as the classic display does, but add the actual values to each table cell. You would just have to do it in a smaller font in order to keep the table's visual size manageable.

In stat slots you could display the full range, rather than going to "*" for values numerically larger than 9. For immunities and resists you could still display "+", "*" or even "33%" / "100%" (or "Imm."). For regeneration you could display the cumulative result of the Regeneration flag and "Imp. HP regen" flag as a percentage relative to "normal" regen (a fly-out or tooltip could display how the result was arrived at).

Make sense?

Exactly! I was thinking about things like that for stat slots. The stat sustains could be made more obvious as well. Maybe a mouse hover could bring up all the items in the player inventory and home that also affect that particular stat/resist/ability. One of my biggest goals is to make it simpler for the player to see how various equipment lineups would look without having to try everything on.

Also, for pval items such as speed, instead of a simple +, it can display the actual change to speed (+3).

[nppangband]

Here's a (partial) screenshot of an actual spreadsheet I used for a winning DaJ character. Bare minimum required info, as this was entered and updated manually. I believe the first section is equipped items and ammo. Second section is carried swaps. Third is home inventory swaps.
More useful? YES. Somewhat confusing? Yes. Info still missing? yes.
If you could combine something like this with expanded mouseover info, I think you would really have something.

That can happen. We will also be able to use right-clicks, left-clicks, double-clicks, and mouse hovers to pull up different types of information.

I am working on the status-bar now, and am trying to make it as useful as possible. Everything is represented by icons, but a mouse hover gives a complete explanation equivalent to what is currently found in the help files. It is also interactive. You can click on the searching icon to start or stop searching, or clicking on the study icon opens up the dialog to learn spells.

[EpicMan]

In Vanilla, many resistances are variable. Each time you get hit by that element, damage gets cut by anywhere from 1/7th to 6/7ths.

Yes, this is utterly bizarre, thank you for noticing.

And is something that could be removed and 90+ percent of Angband players would probably never know. Since it's never explained in game (nor is it explained in the source code, it's just some weird magic numbers with no comments), changing the variable resists to the average (3.5/7, i.e. 1/2) would simplify things and keep the experience about the same for players. Right now the variable resistance adds complexity, but does it add enjoyment or interesting gameplay?

More radically, simplify things further - get rid of the high resistances (and add any protection from foo that would no longer be available) and cut high elemental damage in half. Items with high resists would get protections instead.

[debo]

And is something that could be removed and 90+ percent of Angband players would probably never know. Since it's never explained in game (nor is it explained in the source code, it's just some weird magic numbers with no comments), changing the variable resists to the average (3.5/7, i.e. 1/2) would simplify things and keep the experience about the same for players. Right now the variable resistance adds complexity, but does it add enjoyment or interesting gameplay?

More radically, simplify things further - get rid of the high resistances (and add any protection from foo that would no longer be available) and cut high elemental damage in half. Items with high resists would get protections instead.

"After the restructure" (you're welcome Nick)

[Nick]

And is something that could be removed and 90+ percent of Angband players would probably never know. Since it's never explained in game (nor is it explained in the source code, it's just some weird magic numbers with no comments), changing the variable resists to the average (3.5/7, i.e. 1/2) would simplify things and keep the experience about the same for players. Right now the variable resistance adds complexity, but does it add enjoyment or interesting gameplay?

One of the first things I want to look at is simplifying a whole range of calculations and making them more accessible to the player - to understand, and to change if they choose.

I don't think I would want to get rid of high resists; there are already unresistables, and I think having high resists makes for interesting gear choices.

[nppangband]

I don't think I would want to get rid of high resists; there are already unresistables, and I think having high resists makes for interesting gear choices.

Plus, the biggest benefit of those resists is the prevention of the side effects like blindness, hallucinations, confusion, etc. The player would have to heal so much more frequently without those.

-Jeff

[EpicMan]

Plus, the biggest benefit of those resists is the prevention of the side effects like blindness, hallucinations, confusion, etc. The player would have to heal so much more frequently without those.

-Jeff

I had envisioned replacing the high resists with the appropriate protection. But Nick is right - there are also irresistible elements distinct from the high ones, including time whose effects are not avoidable. No reason to blur that line, as time & mana are notable right now because you cannot resist them.

I would still advocate fixing high resists at 50% damage reduction instead of the current random protection.

[nppangband]

The object flags and stat modifiers still need to be done, but here is the work-in-progress of the character screen. Each label has a tooltip with a detailed explanation of how it is calculated and the purpose in the game. In source-diving to make the tooltips I learned some things I never know(the hunger attack has a saving throw!?).

On a different note, if a brigand is a credit to the family, they need their own reality show pronto.

[Tibarius]

character sheet

I like the character sheet basically as it is. It is easy to overlook and has a very good mix of Information density to clear structure.

If you want to make things easier to understand for players then make the resistances all the same. Resistance to an element = damage reduced to 1/2. Point. It is easy to take a half from some values in head. Make it always work that way, regardless if resistance comes from item or spell. You either have resistance or you don't have it.

OR makes resistances a number between 1 and 99. Which would multiply to reduce resistance. That way item and temporary resitance would add up without ever reaching immunity.
100% damage taken without anything
item gives 40% reduction=>
damage taken = 100 * (100-40)/100 = 60% of full damage
2nd item gives 20% reduction=>
damage taken = 100 * (100-40)/100 * (100-20)/100 = 48% of full damage
spell gives temporary another 50% reduction=>
damage taken = 100 * (100-40)/100 * (100-20)/100 * (100-50)/100 = 24%
of full damage taken
That way it does not matter in which order the modifiers are applied. Cast Spell first and wear item or the other way round, it always Comes out the same.

The charachter sheet would Show the % damage taken ... 100 without resistance and the reduced value if resistance is applied.

I still have no clue what "saving throw %" is good for tho. Does this partially replace the protections? If i have 100% saving throw with high stats, does i still Need pBlind for example?

Cheers,
Tibarius

[nppangband]

After playing around with it for a while, I came to the same conclusion. The character screen doesn't need to be all that different. I am trying to work in as much information as possible. Although it doesn't show up in the screen shot, almost every label has a ToolTip that gives extremely detailed information.

With regard to the different resistances, they are unique because each breath attack does different things. The most dangerous thing about the chaos breath is the hallucination and confusion side effects. Having resist chaos stops the side effects. It is far more important than the damage reduction.

In terms of saving throw, here is the tooltip. Note Vanilla Angband might be slightly different:

Current Saving throw percentage against some monster magical attacks such as fear, paralysis, slowness, blindness, and confusion. It is based on player race, class, level, and wisdom. Note some monster attacks do not allow a saving throw, so even a perfect saving throw doesn't offer complete protection from these side effects.

[Zireael]

I love that character screen! Can't wait to playtest!