Newbie questions about Sangband

[Zireael]

So what I actually seem to be doing is shooting myself comprehensively in the foot, probably with one of debo's rockets.

LOL, made me roll on the floor

[Nick]

That would be very very poor timing on his part, since the codebase is about to change beyond all recognition. This is Nick punishing the world's variant maintainers for what we did to him after he updated FA to 3.1.2's codebase and then to 3.2.0 and then gave up ...

Well, if you look around at the currently (or conceivably) updating variants, you have

• PosChengband, NPPAngband and (if you want to include it as a variant) Sil, none of which are likely to be downstream from current V;
• danaris' incipient variant, which is based off the new codebase as it evolves;
• various others which may update again, but for the most part have forked from V a long time ago and are never going to try to update their interface from V;
• FAangband, Oangband.

So what I actually seem to be doing is shooting myself comprehensively in the foot, probably with one of debo's rockets.

What I want to claim I'm doing is making life easier for future variant maintainers; I think the one thing I can be really confident I am achieving is making life difficult for the devteam

[debo]

That would be very very poor timing on his part, since the codebase is about to change beyond all recognition. This is Nick punishing the world's variant maintainers for what we did to him after he updated FA to 3.1.2's codebase and then to 3.2.0 and then gave up ...

shhh

just imagine how good the look on his face would be when he finished all his work and then was like,

git checkout my_work_of_incomparable_beauty
git pull origin master
echo 'OHMYGODAOIDSHASOIDHSAOISHDA'

[Magnate]

Thats one class I always meant to try but never did, I know for some of my classes I had to pump a lot of skill points into some form of archery to accuratley to start hitting creatures reliably.Probably race ability would be a big help, so you don't have to pump so much into archery at first to be usable. I think a S type ranger would be very similar to an O type ranger, the spells set are very similar. I wish Camlost would come back and start working on Sangband again, an updated Sang with the Angband 3.5.0 code base would be awsome with the many improvements to Vanilla lately.

That would be very very poor timing on his part, since the codebase is about to change beyond all recognition. This is Nick punishing the world's variant maintainers for what we did to him after he updated FA to 3.1.2's codebase and then to 3.2.0 and then gave up ...

[Malak Darkhunter]

Refreshing the thread since I've found out that the Android port also has Sangband.

Any tips on how to make a survivable character, ranger-style?

Thats one class I always meant to try but never did, I know for some of my classes I had to pump a lot of skill points into some form of archery to accuratley to start hitting creatures reliably.Probably race ability would be a big help, so you don't have to pump so much into archery at first to be usable. I think a S type ranger would be very similar to an O type ranger, the spells set are very similar. I wish Camlost would come back and start working on Sangband again, an updated Sang with the Angband 3.5.0 code base would be awsome with the many improvements to Vanilla lately.

[Zireael]

Refreshing the thread since I've found out that the Android port also has Sangband.

Any tips on how to make a survivable character, ranger-style?

[Malak Darkhunter]

I can't speak for Sangband, but in Vanilla, items in rubble are generated when you clear the rubble, and therefore do not factor into level feelings. I still clear rubble for the drop chance (once I know that losing the block in the corridor won't cost me a needed ?Phase to safety), but it is divorced from level feeling.

You don't have to dig the pile of ruble in Sang to pass the obstacle you merely move over the grid, Once you walk over the ruble you generally find an item sometimes, whether the item is generated at the point of walk over I have no clue. The item could be there already if it is "hidden" until you move over the item on the floor,just a like a trap hiding an item, or it could be as you say, generated on walk over or removal of the ruble. As far as Sang is coded in this I have no idea, the maintainer could tell us more if he happend to drop by sometime....

[krazyhades]

..always check piles of rubble for items..in sangband I once found Ringil under a pile of rubble, some rooms also have hidden items that aren't visible until you walk over them as well so remember to check throughly.

I can't speak for Sangband, but in Vanilla, items in rubble are generated when you clear the rubble, and therefore do not factor into level feelings. I still clear rubble for the drop chance (once I know that losing the block in the corridor won't cost me a needed ?Phase to safety), but it is divorced from level feeling.

[Magnate]

Thanks, but I did switch to Karate. I do get practice in it, but it's really slow. I have 100s of unspent skill points waiting for it to become white every time I want to increase it by more than one level.

Ah, then you are not killing the right things. Sangband has quite harsh diminishing returns on xp. Combat skills practice the quickest (cf. trying to practice devices or burglary), so if you're having trouble keeping them white you're killing stuff that's way too weak and you need to dive and seek tougher enemies.

Is there any way a monk using Karate and very little Piety magic can either clear the infestation, or somehow explore this region? I've racked up 1,5k Fly kills and 1k rat kills, but they breed faster than I can kill them. I have a 'circle kick' talent, but it only confuses monsters around me. Is there anything I can do (or carry with me) to make sure the situation doesn't repeat?

A wand of stinking cloud is a cheap early find that's ideal for clearing low-level breeders. Not worth it if you aren't raising Devices though.

The second question is about Oaths. Form what I understand - there is no Oath for the hybrid character types(ie. a monk), right? If I take Oath of Iron I won't be able to cast Piety spells, and if I take a magical Oath than my character will get bad at combat. Are hybrids supposed not to take oaths?

Correct. Oaths reward specialisation. Leon - Sangband's (re)designer - went to great lengths to discourage players from learning too many skills, and still felt he hadn't gone far enough.

[Malak Darkhunter]

A special feeling on a level could represent an artifact or it could represent a monster pit, sounds like you may have found a zoo..always check piles of rubble for items..in sangband I once found Ringil under a pile of rubble, some rooms also have hidden items that aren't visible until you walk over them as well so remember to check throughly.

Once you take an oath other skill trees are forbidden to you, it is a dedication to a certain skill set, so no if you want a hybrid character then do not take an oath, the downside of this is the more powerful spells won't be availiable to you later on in the game as your character grows. Sangband allows for interesting character builds, which Is why I love this variant.

Other messages you might see as you raise your perception skill.

1.)You sense a powerful object-most likely an out of depth item.

2.)you sense a remarkable object- probably a really good ego item, or other item that is way out of depth.

3.) you sense a powerful prescense- a unique monster or out of depth monster.

4.) you sense a terrible prescense- a demon or monster that is very evil and really powerful... (Balrog of Moria) (Greater Demon)..(One of the Ring Wraiths)...those are just examples..

5.) you sense a horde of monsters- a monster pit, zoo,graveyard, could also be uniques with escorts.

6.) you sense something special on this level- honestly this is rare so usually I'm looking for artifacts...look out for scrolls of questing, this takes you to a different levels where artifacts are usually generated as well as strong ego items, there is generaly some really powerful monsters.(This is a fun level, Love this item.)

pre-cognition messages about levels become more accurate with a higher perception skill, also once you get perception up to skill level (55) you can sense area, which is the same as magic mapping.

As far as killing an infestation either use several wands of stinking cloud, potions of speed(you kill them faster than they breed).a mass banishment scroll, or divide and counquer, seal them in rooms you know aren't holding anything of value and try to clear all the hallways, if the infestation is too much though and you have no other way eradicating them then it is best to just leave the level..in sang at deep dungeon depths there are mana flies and chaos tiles, kill them quick or run like hell.

[FlayedOne]

First of all, thank you guys for the replies and help.

The only practical way to avoid acid damage to your equipment is to not get hit by acidic attacks. Mostly that means avoiding the melee attacks of 'j' monsters. You don't have to kill everything you see!

Eventually you can find gear that is immune to acid, and thus cannot itself be damaged. And you can find gear that grants immunity to acid, at which point all of your gear is protected (as are you yourself). But until then, every acid attack will attempt to damage one of your armor slots. Take heart: this does reduce the damage you take by half, assuming the slot selected a) has armor in it, and b) that armor provides a nonzero amount of AC.

Thanks. Things have gotten much better since I got Spiritual Hammer spell. Also the monsters got much more rare below level 10.

Does double resist (1 permanent and 1 temporary) protect equipment and inventory in Sangband? The documentation for this variant is really... erm... not comprehensive:P.

Ages since I've played sanband so unsure on this one, but I'd double check your not accidently wrestling instead of using karate. From memory unarmed defaults to wrestling & you need to press a key to switch to karate.

It's the vertical bar character, |, to switch from W to K (which is shown in the left pane). That's why Karate is not being practised.

Thanks, but I did switch to Karate. I do get practice in it, but it's really slow. I have 100s of unspent skill points waiting for it to become white every time I want to increase it by more than one level.

I believe every item is survivable, essentially - IIRC potions of death leave you on 0HP.

Thanks, so this means the optimal way to get experience is to try things out. My record was getting 250 exp for trying out a wand of clone monster, while my most expansive skill costed 30 points at that time.

And lastly, thank you guys! The '+' works for traps and stealing! I'd never guess that, since it's listed in the commands list as 'alter grid'!

I have two more questions. One is a simple plea for help:
I'm on dlvl 11. I got this level feeling "You feel there is something special here..." in a pink color. I assume this means there is an artifact on the level. The problem is, that I searched through 3/4th of the level and haven't found anything out of ordinary. The other 1/4th got infested by a mixture of Gray Rats and Giant Fruit Flies. (Screenshot attached, green dots mark the doors I used to cut off the infestation)

Is there any way a monk using Karate and very little Piety magic can either clear the infestation, or somehow explore this region? I've racked up 1,5k Fly kills and 1k rat kills, but they breed faster than I can kill them. I have a 'circle kick' talent, but it only confuses monsters around me. Is there anything I can do (or carry with me) to make sure the situation doesn't repeat?

The second question is about Oaths. Form what I understand - there is no Oath for the hybrid character types(ie. a monk), right? If I take Oath of Iron I won't be able to cast Piety spells, and if I take a magical Oath than my character will get bad at combat. Are hybrids supposed not to take oaths?

[Malak Darkhunter]

Let me try and type this out..Sang has several skills for Burglary

Burgarly
Allows you steal objects from monsters,lock doors and get highly effective sneak attacks against sleeping monsters and backstabs against fleeing ones.Renders you farm more silent in all kinds of non magical combat, and allows you to set deadly traps for unwarry monsters.Burglars become much worse with very heavy weapons but much better with light ones as their skills improve. If you raise burglary to the point at which you can steal level 4,shopkeepers start to mistrust you, your charisma drops by 2, you must join the burglars guild to get the full effects of increasing your skill past 20 otherwise it is halved.
Burglary reduces the cost of other skills:disarming by 3/4 ,stealth by 1/3 and dodging by 1/3.
Burglary grants 3 talentsetect and Nab objects(40), poison ammo (55), and hit and run (70), It also grants 3 special abilities: Stealing (4) locking doors (7), and trap setting (10).

[Malak Darkhunter]

Yes, trap setting certainly uses '+' in O/FA/NPP. In S I believe monster traps are usually loaded with items, and affect the monster based on that - Magnate would know more detail.

Playing Sang I pressed the + key which gave me a message stating that I can make no altercations, so I'm betting that you can either set a trap on an existing monster trap or create a trap or possibly both. Skills.text line 251 I think describes burglary talents and trap setting is one of them

[Nick]

Yes, trap setting certainly uses '+' in O/FA/NPP. In S I believe monster traps are usually loaded with items, and affect the monster based on that - Magnate would know more detail.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Potions of death are still around as of version 1.0.0 I am currently playing 1.0.2 and I don't recall them being removed, I am not sure if Sang actually has a stealing or trap setting ability, Sang is a variant of O and i believe O has trap setting, becuase if I recall correctly Nppangband took the trap setting code from Oangband. You used trap setting in those variants by using the + key I beleive, but Nick and Jeff could verify this for me because it's been awhile since i used those functions. I wish Camlost was still around he is the Sangband maintainer and he's been quiet for a long while now.