My variant development journal

[CJNyfalt]

Do you really need 3 races of Elf?

No, I don't think that multiple sub-races are a good idea. I also think that have both small guys for rogues (Hobbits) and small guys for mages (Gnomes) seems a little too much. Especially if races like kobolds and yeeks are added later.


After some playtesting, I figured out that the advice to focus on martial arts at start doesn't really works. The problem: martial arts immune whirlwinds on dlvl 1.
So, on my next testing character I will buy a melee weapon. The question is: Should whirlwinds be moved deeper or not?

[buzzkill]

Just a couple of thoughts, off the top of my head...

Hobbit: Str -4, Int 0, Wis 0, Dex 3, Con 0, Cha 2 = 1
High-Elf: Str -1, Int 3, Wis 0, Dex 3, Con 0, Cha 3 = 8
Do you really need 3 races of Elf?
Giants: No penalty for wielding weapons that are to heavy. Superior throwing ability and extra damage from thrown items. All items become "useful" for throwing (as if they were made for throwing). Crushing melee attacks that have "area of effect".

[CJNyfalt]

Removed age, I will keep height and weight from now, since the later is used in various calculations.

When I'm tweaking the starting setup, I also consider the starting stats of races:

• Human: 0*6 = 0
• Elf: Str -1, Int 2, Wis 1, Dex 1, Con -2, Cha 1 = 2
• Hobbit: Str -2, Int 1, Wis 1, Dex 3, Con 2, Cha 1 = 6
• Gnome: Str -1, Int 2, Wis 0, Dex 2, Con 0, Cha -2 = 1
• Dwarf: Str 2, Int -2, Wis 2, Dex -2, Con 2, Cha -2 = 0
• Half-Orc: Str 2, Int -1, Wis -1, Dex 0, Con 2, Cha -3 = -1
• Half-Troll: Str 4, Int -4, Wis -1, Dex -3, Con 4, Cha -4 = -4
• Dunadan: Str 1, Int 1, Wis 3, Dex 2, Con 3, Cha 2 = 12
• High-Elf: Str 1, Int 3, Wis -1, Dex 3, Con 1, Cha 3 = 10
• Dark-Elf: Str -1, Int 3, Wis 0, Dex 2, Con -2, Cha -1 = 1
• Giant: Str 3, Int 0, Wis -2, Dex -2, Con 2, Cha -1 = 0

General observations:
1. Since I tend to move away from Tolkien, I have no need to emulate LotR races.
2. Charisma will become more valuable in the future so it's counted fully when balancing.
3. Half-Trolls seems underpowered, Hobbits, Dunadan & High-Elves overpowered.
4. Giants seems wimpy compared to Half-Trolls.

Planned changes:
- Elves: Here I'm considering to remove the Wis & Cha bonus, and increase the Dex bonus to 2.
- Hobbits: I plan to at least remove the Wis & Int bonuses. As for more changes depends on what I really want Hobbits or Halflings.
- Gnome: As with Hobbits, the question is what kind of Gnomes do I want.
- Dwarves: I want to get rid of the Int malus, but how should I balance it?
- Half-Orcs & Half-Trolls: No idea yet, except that I plan to drop the "Half"-part of the names.
- Dunadan & High-Elves: Might get dropped, and if not adjusted downward a bit.
- Dark-Elf: No plans yet.
- Giants: Need more strength.

[CJNyfalt]

Today I did remove the generation of the character background text, and the social class. These two I classified as useless fluff that wasn't worth the effort needed for maintaining once I starts to tweak the races.
The starting money contribution from social class was 5x, so I replaced that with a fixed 25 corresponding to a social class of 5.

For now starting money is 25 + rand(100-150) +/- high stat adjustment.
I'm also considering to remove the stat effect on starting money.

Other useless fluff I want to remove is age, weight and height. The age variable will stay as a death-counter for beginner characters.

[CJNyfalt]

Except on MSVC, which calls it something else, IIRC. Note that the implementation of strnfmt is buggy even if you switch to snprintf (see http://dev.rephial.org/trac/changese...ontextlines=15). If you're going to switch to snprintf at all, you might as well work out how to switch to it in such a way you can remove vstrnfmt(), IMO, or just avoid using any of the printf() family at all.

Well, for the z-form.c trouble I see four different possible actions:
1. Do nothing

2. Fix what I can in it (which is not much)

3. Minimize number calls to z-form, replacing them with stdio.h calls if possible

4. Switch to C++, and get real string data types

[takkaria]

Merged in all the fixes from J. Middendorf's (aka camlost) Sangband-bugfix today.

Another thing that I want to do is to get rid of the use of sprintf in z-form. There is snprintf, but it was standardized in C99. So, is C99 in common enough use that I can use snprintf?

Except on MSVC, which calls it something else, IIRC. Note that the implementation of strnfmt is buggy even if you switch to snprintf (see http://dev.rephial.org/trac/changese...ontextlines=15). If you're going to switch to snprintf at all, you might as well work out how to switch to it in such a way you can remove vstrnfmt(), IMO, or just avoid using any of the printf() family at all.

[CJNyfalt]

Merged in all the fixes from J. Middendorf's (aka camlost) Sangband-bugfix today.

Another thing that I want to do is to get rid of the use of sprintf in z-form. There is snprintf, but it was standardized in C99. So, is C99 in common enough use that I can use snprintf?

[CJNyfalt]

Here is a possible stat scheme.

Let M be the maximum benefit of a stat. That could be anything from damage bonus for strength, index of 10 into blows table for dex, 8 mana per level for int/wis, or whatever.

Then, for a stat of S < 38 [38 is 18/200] make the benefit be M * S / 40. For stats S >= 38, the benefit is M.

I would love to see that tested.

Sounds good. That would also give benefit = 0 when S = 0. This would of course require the adjustment of some defaults elsewhere so that there would be no need for negative values.


Still considering the character creation stuff, I'm pondering if there is need to tweak starting money a bit. I'm considering to just give a straight 150 or 200 instead of the social class and stat related calculation.

[PowerDiver]

- Tweak stat-scaling to become more linear. I want characters to be viable without auto-roller use. This would probably mean that characters will perform better in the 11-18 range, and worse at high stats like 28+ compared to vanilla Sang.

Here is a possible stat scheme.

Let M be the maximum benefit of a stat. That could be anything from damage bonus for strength, index of 10 into blows table for dex, 8 mana per level for int/wis, or whatever.

Then, for a stat of S < 38 [38 is 18/200] make the benefit be M * S / 40. For stats S >= 38, the benefit is M.

I would love to see that tested.

[CJNyfalt]

So, I managed to sort through my plans for this variant.

Short-term plans:

- Tweak stat-scaling to become more linear. I want characters to be viable without auto-roller use. This would probably mean that characters will perform better in the 11-18 range, and worse at high stats like 28+ compared to vanilla Sang.

- Add more boss-levels. Saruman and Witch-king seems like good candidates.

- Trim down number of elemental attack types. Time and Chaos are likely to get axed, because they have a flavor that doesn't fit my plans.

- Monster races. At first this will mostly be collections of common flags, but they will also serve the purpose of defining the game-world.

- Go through latest Vanilla for ideas.

Long-term plans (that means stuff I'm not sure how to implement):

- Rewrite shop code to remove need for town-scumming.

- Add mechanism for charming monsters.

- Make stats points become earned with exp, not from potions.

- Move setting away from Tolkien.

- Overhaul the skill mechanism to something more interesting.

[CJNyfalt]

3 WoR is excessive, I think; V starts wth 1. And I'm not convinced giving starting characters shovels is a good idea.

Was unsure about the shovel myself. As for the WoR, I'll try and start with one and add more if I think it the lack of WoR is still a problem after testing.

I would also like to add body armor to the starting kit: The question is robe or soft leather armor? Robes are kind of useless, but adding soft leather at start makes them even more useless.

[takkaria]

So, I was intending to discuss future plans, but the playtesting I did yesterday had me deciding to consider starting gear and money instead.

The deal is that I consider the starting part of the game, where I have to gain enough money to afford the gear needed for diving, takes too long.
Now, I could give the player more starting money, but I think that it would be better to give more starting gear instead.
So, I consider giving each starting character the following, in addition to the torches and food:
- 5x !CLW
- 5x ?PD
- 3x ?WoR
- 5x ?Learn Magic
- A cloak
- A pair of Leather Sandals
- A hard leather cap
- A shovel

Opinions?

3 WoR is excessive, I think; V starts wth 1. And I'm not convinced giving starting characters shovels is a good idea.

[CJNyfalt]

So, I was intending to discuss future plans, but the playtesting I did yesterday had me deciding to consider starting gear and money instead.

The deal is that I consider the starting part of the game, where I have to gain enough money to afford the gear needed for diving, takes too long.
Now, I could give the player more starting money, but I think that it would be better to give more starting gear instead.
So, I consider giving each starting character the following, in addition to the torches and food:
- 5x !CLW
- 5x ?PD
- 3x ?WoR
- 5x ?Learn Magic
- A cloak
- A pair of Leather Sandals
- A hard leather cap
- A shovel

Opinions?

[Atarlost]

Are you sure you're not thinking of this thread?

Yep. I'd just read that one and came here and was too eager to make the pun to realise I was on a different thread with a merely similar subject.

[Pete Mack]

This reminds me... Jamband delivery is only 2 months away. Better get to work...