Variant with diverse character combos and great item system?

[stabwound]

The thing I liked a lot about my former-favorite roguelike, Crawl, is that many of the character combos play very differently than the others. Some have unique characteristics not found on others, leading to a different play style and experience.

Contrast that to Nethack or Angband, where the races generally just have different strengths and weaknesses but generally play the same.

I'm looking for a variant that is fun (duh), has character combos that are varied in playstyles, etc, and something with a great item system and balance.

My 3rd party info told me that PosChengband kind of fits this description, but the loot drops are a bit wonky and level design not always the best compared to a game like Tome 2. Is that accurate?

[Philip]

I'd say that the only variant that comes close to your specs is Poscheng. Angband is designed so that there are a couple classes, and those do play differently, but races are flavour and mostly important before statgain, when the racial bonuses even out. A game with six classes is easier to balance.
EDIT: I'd also like to mention that while I don't play Poscheng myself, it is a good variant, very well balanced considering the thousands of race/class combos.

[Djabanete]

Crawl's appeal to me was (1) the "lean and mean" feel and (2) the combinatorics of character building. PosChengband doesn't really feel lean and mean, but it does max out on character combinatorics. There's lots of depth within the race and class choices. I tend to play random characters and just see what interactions emerge, while more successful players (such as the maintainer, Chris) have been known to lay out the whole gameplan from the beginning and figure out what endgame equipment and abilities will be optimal for a specific build.

I enjoy Vanilla Town mode because for me the scope of the default game is actually too broad, what with all the quests and dungeons. I'm not sure whether that makes the game more or less like Crawl, since Crawl at least has dungeon branches.

Anyway, it's a big, zany, sprawling game. Despite going against certain of my sensibilities (for example there's a low signal-to-noise ratio with items and you have to squelch very aggressively to get through the endgame), it's the roguelike that's kept me hooked longer than any other. I'm very happy in Vanilla Town PosCheng, have been for a long time (well sure it used to be Heng, Entro, or what have you), and don't really see that changing. I'd recommend giving it a go.

[Derakon]

I suspect the leanest-and-meanest Angband variant is Sil, and it's not exactly an Angband variant any more. Angband's initial premise was "Moria II: Now With More Stuff", after all. You'd have to do a lot of paring down to get an Angband variant that felt lean.

[Pete Mack]

You could try Steamband for a completely different take. It's fairly out of date, but it's good for a real change. And the different character classes are different

[Djabanete]

Now that I think of it, it sounds like IronBand might be worth a try for the OP.

Steam and Sil were also good recommendations.

[Nick]

FAangband

[Derakon]

FAangband

I swear you have a keyboard shortcut to make that post in whatever thread you're currently looking at.

[stabwound]

Thanks for the suggestions. PosChengband and FAandband look the most appealing to me personally, even though the Tolkien setting is starting to wear pretty thin. Steam looks neat, but the fact that it hasn't been updated in a long time puts me off.

ToME2 was my favorite variant for a while, but it becomes apparently that many of the character combos just aren't viable at all, contrasted to a game like Crawl where even the worst combination is possible to win given enough player skill and some luck. It's too bad that it's been long-abandoned in favor of ToME4, which isn't at all like it.

[Nick]

Thanks for the suggestions. PosChengband and FAandband look the most appealing to me personally, even though the Tolkien setting is starting to wear pretty thin. Steam looks neat, but the fact that it hasn't been updated in a long time puts me off.

I suspect Steam hasn't been updated because it is in pretty good shape - I wouldn't write it off because of lack of updates.

[getter77]

Steamband is actually, in theory, due an update at some point in the future as per a thread by the main person on it in here awhile back---fingers crossed.

Hmm, if ToME 2 really jumped out to you---I'd say look into Furyband as there was some odd interplay afoot: http://www.furytech.net/furyband/furyband.php Zop's mod there might bolster it nicely, but either way there's almost certainly a fair bit going on there on the whole.

[Magnate]

We are not worthy!!

(Since people appear not to have made the connection: Stabwound is to Crawl what Lev/Cliff were to Angband.)

Welcome, Stabwound. I second the recommendations of Steam and Sil, in which different builds play very differently. I'd also recommend Oangband (which is a leaner precursor of FA) and Sangband (which has the closest to Crawl's skill system, so the difference between builds is up to you).

[Pete Mack]

Stabwound, I agree with Magnate: if you are a God of Crawl, Sil, Steam, and O/FA/S are the choices for you. Angband proper is fundamentally too easy unless you are looking to make the game more interesting by diving, etc. That's actually my preference: dive fast and see if I survive. But Cliff Stamp was the God of Diving, True Acolyte of the RNG. (We are not worthy...)

[getter77]

Ah yeah, definitely also adding Sangband and/or Ironband to my own recs---it would be a great day to see Sang resume lively development, but the prospect of somebody actually beating it and perhaps chronicling it somehow via video or otherwise would be a sight to behold.

[half]

Stabwound, I'm one of the developers of Sil and would also recommend it. It is very different to Angband, and has a design philosophy that is very similar to that of Crawl. It doesn't have any classes, but uses a skill system and experts in the different skills are very distinct in their play styles.