Any original Moria players still around?

[nppangband]

So far I have made better progress than expected. I finished all the edit files, and almost of the code changes for Moria object generation. In terms of total progress towards a playable beta, I think I am around 50% there.

[nppangband]

Some huge differences in moria to angband ...
1. Targeting-angband has a much better targeting system

I am keeping the Angaband targeting systems. That was one of the main reasons I am choosing to upgrade moria to make it more playablerather than just download and play.

2. Pseudo ID- moria uses a very weak pseudo I'd system
Not sure how you want to approach that given the different views on I'd

Keep Angband pseudo-id for now. Warriors would be extremely difficult without it.

3. No monster escorts or vault groups, moria generally had solitary monsters that at best would only appear close together in bunches in vault rooms. And no uniques with escorts. ( I generally like this) less dungeon loot clutter from slain monsters.....and then there is the auto squelch that moria did not have.

I am not putting in any group monsters to start. I do need to make sure the # of monsters and objects are consistent with Moria, because there aren't nearly as many object drops.

4. No artifacts- holy avengers where generally the most sought for ego weapons
I think weapons of gondolin, and some angband ego's would still be nice however.

Probably. In porting the object list I realized how rare

5. See invisible was very rare as well as rings of speeds

Yep. On the other hand, the only necessary protections to win are SI, free action, the 4 resists, and 1-2 speed items.

6. No Id spell for priests, only Mage spells had Id , rogue, ranger, Mage had Id no other class did, and the game used only the basic spells, no artifact books.

Yes, thsi will stay.

7. Only +1 light radius, max, and no ego ego lanterns.

To start, I am sticking with the Angband method here. Lanterns are +2 (no ego-lanterns), and I am going to add the Phial as the games only artifact.

8. Stores only sold random stat potions in shops, you were never guaranteed to find that stat potion you need in town. Stores generally were very random in their merchandise , no fixed store inventory like in angband today.

That's now it will start out. Maybe eventually I will add in some NPP store services, but not to start.

I think this has the potential to be a very fun and very challenging game once it's fully implemented, Moria really really needed to be remade, and brought up to date, in this way it can still live.

I hope so. I have wanted to play it myself, but I can't quite give up all of Angband's UI improvements. So for me to update it just seemed to be the best solution.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Character race attributes where also different in moria, no high elves dunadan or kobolds. Beej's moria spoilers are going to be wonderful for faithfully recreating the game.

[bron]

(Rf) resist fire also really helped, lol

Yes, very much so. Even with a Rune, the Balrog can still breathe fire, so having both permanent and temporary fire resistance (and of course, healing) is important (at least at the beginning of the fight, before you whittle down his HP).

[Malak Darkhunter]

(Rf) resist fire also really helped, lol, also level cap in moria was 40. I had a level 40 priest loved him.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Huh, cool! Thx for the info, again. I used about 8 potions of invulnerability with my half-orc rogue to win. It felt cheesy at the time, but I was not about to retackle the game if I lost. I still have the save before the fight on an email account somewhere... maybe I'll go dredge it up.

[bron]

Is it possible to kill the Balrog with melee without invulnerability? I don't know much about the big B.

Yes. The other simple way (besides invulnerability) is to use (multiple) Runes, which are *way* more effective in Moria than they are in Angband.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Is it possible to kill the Balrog with melee without invulnerability? I don't know much about the big B.

[half]

There is a speed system that could be improved by replacing it with the Angband style speed system???

My thoughts exactly. There is a legitimate question about how fine grained a speed system one should have (Sil's is part way between Moria's and Angband's), but the diminishing returns through a completely opaque lookup table with arbitrary values in it is terrible.

If the Moria speed system needs changing, then I'd suggest something like the Sil system. There are 4 speeds: 1, 2, 3, 4. These mean what they look like (i.e. speed 3 is 1.5 times as fast as speed 2 etc). The player starts at 2, and temporary effects or permanent effects move this by + or - 1. I guarantee that the player's speed is constrained by 1 and 3, but you could allow it to get to 4 with the use of two items if you want.

[Psi]

You can find/make artifacts with perma speed in Sil, but it's not easy. (The perma speed artifact is a robe, and it gives no other advantages. And to forge it is really expensive obviously.)

I would add that "fast" in Sil in only 1.5 times normal in any case.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Some huge differences in moria to angband ...

1. Targeting-angband has a much better targeting system

2. Pseudo ID- moria uses a very weak pseudo I'd system
Not sure how you want to approach that given the different views on I'd

3. No monster escorts or vault groups, moria generally had solitary monsters that at best would only appear close together in bunches in vault rooms. And no uniques with escorts. ( I generally like this) less dungeon loot clutter from slain monsters.....and then there is the auto squelch that moria did not have.

4. No artifacts- holy avengers where generally the most sought for ego weapons
I think weapons of gondolin, and some angband ego's would still be nice however.

5. See invisible was very rare as well as rings of speeds

6. No Id spell for priests, only Mage spells had Id , rogue, ranger, Mage had Id no other class did, and the game used only the basic spells, no artifact books

7. Only +1 light radius, max, and no ego ego lanterns.

8. Stores only sold random stat potions in shops, you were never guaranteed to find that stat potion you need in town. Stores generally were very random in their merchandise , no fixed store inventory like in angband today.

I think this has the potential to be a very fun and very challenging game once it's fully implemented, Moria really really needed to be remade, and brought up to date, in this way it can still live.

[nppangband]

> NPPMoria

That would be pretty cool. I realize we all have our own particular set of "must have" features, but I hope you strongly resist the temptation to add too much. For myself, I think the only "really need to be changed" parts of Moria are (1) to use the Angband style "speed" system, and (2) to make Green Oozes *not* drop items.

Actually, it is the potions of invulrnerability that I find the most unbalancing....but maybe they are fair considering Ancient Chromatic Dragons can kill on one breath....and Ancient Green dragons come pretty close to doing the same.

I am starting with the moria speed system, although I admit there is room for a whole lot improvement. Although, I am not sure if the Angabnd syyle works because there are only two speed items in Moria...Boots of speed and rings of speed (+1). So to make them incremental means the player would die of boredom before they got to +20 speed.

But first things first, let me get it up and running, then we can play and brainstorm from there.

:::kicking myself for announcing I was working on this the day before Boishock: Infinite was released:::

[Malak Darkhunter]

Jeff Green- so glad you decided to do this, I will be eagerly awaiting your release, I might have to stop playing war commander on facebook for awhile, to play this! lol

[Patashu]

You can find/make artifacts with perma speed in Sil, but it's not easy. (The perma speed artifact is a robe, and it gives no other advantages. And to forge it is really expensive obviously.)

[Derakon]

Sil doesn't have any permanent speed boosts though, right? Temporarily doubling your speed at the cost of a rare consumable is completely different from having gear that literally doubles your effectiveness at just about everything.