Halls of Mist 1.3.0

[Starhawk]

Hmmm, I can't think of too many times I've spent 2000 turns on a level, even with frequent stops to rest. And hopefully the slightly-more-effective healing will be helpful.

The change I'm most thankful for is that my lunkhead characters will no longer be stuck without Lore points, if I'm reading you correctly. Nothing sucked like taking a MEM drain from a wound and being stuck without any Lore....

[ekolis]

The new mana system allows me to try lots of new spell ideas. Like enchanting weapons!

As in, spend a huge chunk of mana (and thus gimp your spellcasting for the rest of the level) for a permanent enchantment akin to the effects of Enchant Weapon scrolls? Neat! And it wouldn't be overpowered, since you have a limited number of levels you can visit to recharge your mana... though mana restoration potions might be a problem!

[Mikko Lehtinen]

By the way, I suspect that the Glyph of Warding spell (or whatever it's called) could do with a serious reduction in mana cost or fail rate or both. It seems like these were previously high to pseudo-balance the fact that you could do powerful things by spending a lot of turns to drop it everywhere. The new mana system and level timer both act quite strongly against that.

You're right, I'll make it cheaper.

The new mana system allows me to try lots of new spell ideas. Like enchanting weapons!

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Are mist-creatures going to be clearly marked as such, in the event that they get spawned early? Would hate to waste time/consumables stomping a worthless creature because I thought it was real.

They are dark blue/light blue/violet, changing color every turn. They also have "mist" in their status line.

Mostly you will see them after 4000 rounds or so.

Let's say there's a 1 in 30 chance of generating a phantasm every turn -- that's the situation after one Wooden Torch (2000 turns). Every phantasm also has a 1 in 30 chance of dissolving every turn. Even if a random mist-phantasm gets generated early on, you probably won't see it before it dissolves.

Usually it's not hard to clear a level within 2000 turns. Or so I imagine -- I have only playtested early levels.

You also mentioned Circles of Summoning now summon mist-creatures -- therefore they are no longer useful for XP generation, and Scrolls of Summon Monster are 100% junk for the same reason -- right?

Right. But I can easily reverse my decision about them. I'm starting to feel that I should. Especially Circles of Summoning didn't feel right in my last game.

[Scatha]

• Summoned creatures are mist-phantasms. They don't give loot or experience, and they have a 3% chance of dissolving each game turn.
• If you spend too much time on a dungeon level, mist-phantasms start appearing spontaneously! This is another "clock" that makes you think how you spend your time -- don't rest if you really don't need to.

I like the phantasms-as-level-timer mechanic a lot. There's lots of room for you to tweak variables to get the balance right.

To echo Starhawk's second question, though, I thought when you talked about introducing the mist phantasms that you wanted to keep the one-off summoning sources making genuine monsters to make them an interesting choice. You've come down on the side of it being too flavourfully weird for you to want to summon enemies?

By the way, I suspect that the Glyph of Warding spell (or whatever it's called) could do with a serious reduction in mana cost or fail rate or both. It seems like these were previously high to pseudo-balance the fact that you could do powerful things by spending a lot of turns to drop it everywhere. The new mana system and level timer both act quite strongly against that.

[Starhawk]

I was already feeling squeezed by the 'timer' of only being able to do each level once. I'm leery of these no-XP, no-loot mist creatures.

Are mist-creatures going to be clearly marked as such, in the event that they get spawned early? Would hate to waste time/consumables stomping a worthless creature because I thought it was real.

You also mentioned Circles of Summoning now summon mist-creatures -- therefore they are no longer useful for XP generation, and Scrolls of Summon Monster are 100% junk for the same reason -- right?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Usually 1-3 days before the end of the current comp. The current comp has about 6 days left. If you want the comp to wait for a bugfix version it is probably best to contact Nick so he doesn't start the new comp before you are ready. Also if you need more time he may be able to set up a quick filler comp to allow for that.

I'll release the bugfix version on Wednesday then. Nothing critical, mostly just aesthetic things -- I want my dungeon to look tidy before the visitors arrive.

[Darin]

Thanks.

I think a bugfix release before the comp would be a good idea. I already fixed some dungeon generation bugs. When does the competition start, exactly?

Usually 1-3 days before the end of the current comp. The current comp has about 6 days left. If you want the comp to wait for a bugfix version it is probably best to contact Nick so he doesn't start the new comp before you are ready. Also if you need more time he may be able to set up a quick filler comp to allow for that.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

You can still rest for SP in this version, despite SP not being restorable by resting - not sure if this actually wastes turns or not!

Thanks.

I think a bugfix release before the comp would be a good idea. I already fixed some dungeon generation bugs. When does the competition start, exactly?

[ekolis]

You can still rest for SP in this version, despite SP not being restorable by resting - not sure if this actually wastes turns or not!

[Mikko Lehtinen]

I had another idea: zombies could become faster (angry) when damaged.

Sleepwalker: a type of animated undead. They walk around slowly, in a dream-like state, following the simple orders programmed in by their masters. Only when they suffer pain they awaken to the horrible reality, and fight for their life.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Identify (points) on side bar not capitalized ("identify").

Maybe I should capitalize it? I tried to make the proficiency point words different from Hits and Mana and similar to each other, conveying a sense that these three words belong to a group.

How about "leap" instead of hop. Leaping onto tables and over bushes sounds less bunny rabbity.

Right. Noticing differences like this is much easier for people with English as the first language.

Maybe change the color of (tried) locked doors that you cannot open to darker brown.
Ditto indecipherable runes, darker red. Also, maybe a rune's beam (once established) could turn the floor to red.

Perhaps. Mist is unfortunately limited to 16 colors. I'll check if there are enough colors.

Making the rune's beam visible might be too difficult to be worth it, but perhaps not. Would it bother you if it only showed on empty floors, not on tables or altars?

Identifying a scroll or powder (identify points) requires an alchemy skill check?

Identify always requires an Alchemy check. Remember to wear all MEM-boosting equipment before identifying attempts!

If you want to get all of your stuff identified, save a couple of Lore scrolls for extra identify points, and use them after you have successfully completed a Circle of Knowledge. Identify Pack allows you to make a separate Alchemy check for each object in you inventory.

(Y/n) prompt in stores now works, but is presented as "Y/n". Looks a little wonky.

With the capitalization I was trying to convey the idea that it was the default, and pressing return means yes.

Was able to spot an invisible "lost soul" with infravision, WAD?

Maybe the ghost is colder than the surrounding area?

Too many light is growing feint messages.

Yep.

White wolves seem to have a hard time jumping (for being wolves).

Perhaps. But having 40% as the default is simpler for the player than having different jumping skills for every creature. Perhaps there should be three possible values for Jumping: bad 20%, normal 40%, good 70%?

HELP: q = drink a potion or drink from a fountain
HELP: "within the dungeon" should contain a few words on fountains and altars (rather than rambling on about the town)

Agreed.

Items lost when transforming into another shape could be placed in your inventory or on the floor.

Right. I'll make it a bit more intelligent.

Door placed inside of room. Next to flat wall, but not blocking access to anything.

Thanks. I try to fix the remaining bugs with the dungeon generation. It's kinda fun, actually. Generating hundreds of dungeons and hunting bugs is a trance-like experience.

I suppose the PC is immune to the negative effects of circles, even when in a different form (shapechanged)???

Yep.

Also, becoming a naga didn't alter my PC's sex (or may have actually changed it to male, IIRC she was female). Aren't they female only?

Right. Harpies and nagas should be female. I'll add a sex-change.

How about a "timer bar" just above the XP bar, one tick for every 100 turns spent on the level (green<1000, yellow>1000, red>2000).

Maybe. Let's try first how well the time limit works on practise.

I'm very interested in your experiences with the time limit, since I'm very familiar with your playstyle based on the AARs. You have a natural tendency to avoid resting. I suppose you should only rarely have problems with mist-phantasms. Let me know if it happens too rarely or too often.

Give "slow" creeping coins (maybe not copper) the ability to "grab" you, maybe a sticky secretion, to prevent hack n' back.

There are perhaps too many slow monsters at the moment. Some of them could use twists like this.

I had another idea: zombies could become faster (angry) when damaged.

[buzzkill]

Random thoughts and observations (v1.3)

Identify (points) on side bar not capitalized ("identify").
How about "leap" instead of hop. Leaping onto tables and over bushes sounds less bunny rabbity.
Maybe change the color of (tried) locked doors that you cannot open to darker brown.
Ditto indecipherable runes, darker red. Also, maybe a rune's beam (once established) could turn the floor to red.
Identifying a scroll or powder (identify points) requires an alchemy skill check?
(Y/n) prompt in stores now works, but is presented as "Y/n". Looks a little wonky.
Was able to spot an invisible "lost soul" with infravision, WAD?
I've met Smeagol .
Too many light is growing feint messages.
White wolves seem to have a hard time jumping (for being wolves).
HELP: q = drink a potion or drink from a fountain
HELP: "within the dungeon" should contain a few words on fountains and altars (rather than rambling on about the town)
Items lost when transforming into another shape could be placed in your inventory or on the floor.
Door placed inside of room. Next to flat wall, but not blocking access to anything.
Room was larger than shown and corridor leading to it was 2x wide (but you get the idea). Also contained an armoury rack in a far corner.

########
#      ###
#  +   
#########

I suppose the PC is immune to the negative effects of circles, even when in a different form (shapechanged)???
Also, becoming a naga didn't alter my PC's sex (or may have actually changed it to male, IIRC she was female). Aren't they female only?
How about a "timer bar" just above the XP bar, one tick for every 100 turns spent on the level (green<1000, yellow>1000, red>2000).
[++++++++++]= approx. 1300 turns.
Give "slow" creeping coins (maybe not copper) the ability to "grab" you, maybe a sticky secretion, to prevent hack n' back.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Arghh. No escape points/proficiency? How are we to survive?

Escapes hasn't changed. The proficiency points are now called identify, recover and escape; each can be used for the power of the same name. Everybody has two identify points, and one recover point per 10 experience levels.

Faery races get escapes at levels 5, 15, 25, 35, and 45. Since version 1.2.3 even non-faeries get escape points at level 15 and 35 while they are blessed by at least one goddess.

[buzzkill]

Arghh. No escape points/proficiency? How are we to survive?