Chengband / Entroband

[chem]

ah, I just answered my questions at the demigodparentage spoiler page poseidon, yeesh, a demigod melee char may be more fun than a spectre zerker

[chem]

Well, my spectre zerker finally won. yay!

Chris + crew: can I get a wizard-mode enabled version of chengband for download?

Also, I was browsing the release notes a bit and noticed a lot of changes to random artifact generation. Did that only apply to randarts which replace the standard set, or to all randarts? The randarts I found in my GCVs at dlvl1, 40, and 60 were generally bad and not useful. I might not have equipped one all game other than a couple low pval speed rings. If I had all randarts turned on and was top level dungeon scumming at dlvl 1 and 40, my new randarts be generated at... which depth? The example in the release notes talks about ringil, which I think I found at dlvl 40 and is really awesome enough to be a dlvl 100 quality item. But its replacement would be generated with dlvl 40? Or the vault-square quality, so (40+out of depth rating)? At any rate, it seems like randarts might not match up to the standard set considering how many awesome things there are now. I never found a randart with an immunity, for example, which is fairly common in V 3.2.0.

Speaking of randart rings, did I just have really weird luck to find two early and then none ever again, or were they being autosquelched? I worry that randart lights and rings and things were being squelched -- although an auto-destroy attempt should fail, right?

Not sure what race/class I want to play next. dz suggested blood knight, but looking at that class info it seems to be REALLY hard to win with -- they only shine when at low health, which is a recipe for death despite their 10 HD. I want to play a demigod, but I also want to play an android. I worry that with an android I'd actually level up way too quickly, since potions of "statistic" seem rare enough that it took forever for my zerker to max out CON -- after I had killed the unicorn. I think I'll try a Rune Knight next - no winner is posted on ladder for that. How do Rune effects stack?

Maybe I just talked myself into an Android Rune Knight?

[chris]

Congrats on the winner!

Wizard mode should be enabled already ... Go to options (=) Game play options (4) and turn on allow_debug_opts. Then you should be able to issue wizard commands (Ctl+A) and enter wizard mode (Ctl+W).

For rand-arts, the generation algorithm has been extensively tweaked. Previously, depth played no role whatsoever, but now depth is very important. So you really need to go deeper to find good rand-arts ... With vaults, they are generating at level +40 so I would think you would find good ones in the dragon's lair. Immunities are probably too rare these days, unfortunately and I'll have a look at tweaking them again sometime soon.

For classes to try, there are lots of new additions. Weaponmasters are popular and there are good spoilers on those. Blood Knights are lots of fun, but encourage risky play. I haven't tried Rune Knights too much, but if you like the idea of putting a force brand on something like Chainsword, then this is the class for you. I would just pick something new and try it out.

--Chris

[chem]

With vaults, they are generating at level +40 so I would think you would find good ones in the dragon's lair. Immunities are probably too rare these days, unfortunately and I'll have a look at tweaking them again sometime soon.

Hmm, maybe their quality in general just needs tweaking, or some themeing done with them like the Zangband revamp of randarts from a few years back. I dunno. The standard arts are so powerful now that the randarts generally paled in comparison. I kept some in my home in case I ever needed to cover a resist hole, but rarely used them. I think I used some randart xbows for their +stats/resists, but that's it (and it was on a zerker so I didn't care about their damage). I spent a lot of time in the dragon's lair and sold dozens and dozens of randarts to shops (over 50 mil gold at one point, then caine or whoever stole it all).

If I have multiple runes of absorption on a RK, how does the -25% spell dmg stack?

Thanks for the variant!

[Djabanete]

By how much are gold drops increased in no-selling mode? I can't tell if it's too much or if The Hoard is just that rich.

Edit: It seems balanced actually. I'm just used to playing no-selling *and* not getting enhanced gold, so I feel wealthier than usual. The Hoard was worth 100K+ for 10 minutes of scumming, but I left him alive and escaped the level when other things started getting too hairy. But 100K won't buy you anything you can't find at depth 45 anyway.

Unrelated comment: I like how monsters follow you on staircases, but I don't think monsters that can't normally follow teleport (Warriors of the Dawn) should be able to follow you when you read a Scroll of Teleport Level.

[chris]

Hmm, maybe their quality in general just needs tweaking, or some themeing done with them like the Zangband revamp of randarts from a few years back. I dunno. The standard arts are so powerful now that the randarts generally paled in comparison.

I think the rand-art power level is OK based on statistical evidence. Its hard to judge things based on the experience of a single game, in my experience. Whenever I play an unusual room berserker I find I cannot possibly carry all the loot back to town for *identification* so that many artifacts go unidentified. Of course, the names often help separate the wheat from the chaff.

You might consider playing a rand-art only game. There is a birth option called random_artifacts which you may turn on. In this mode, whenever the game would have generated a standard artifact, it instead will generate a random replacement artifact of the same object type. You are correct that many of the standard arts are simply over powered and a random art can't compete (e.g. +10 speed crossbows) but on the whole, I think the power levels will be comparable by end game. The only possible issue at the moment might be speed since it seems that characters come to rely on +10 speed bows ... At least mine do Also, rand-art weaponry has the capacity to become enormously over powered (e.g. 12d5 weapons with a 3.5x slay evil).

I am finding immunities to be about 2% odds at L90. I may goose the odds up a bit, but not much. The old rand art code generated immunity way too often, IMO.

[Edit: 20 in 1000 is actually 2%, not 0.2%]

[chris]

If I have multiple runes of absorption on a RK, how does the -25% spell dmg stack?

If you have 2, then you get -50% spell damage. That seems a bit too powerful ...

[chris]

By how much are gold drops increased in no-selling mode? I can't tell if it's too much or if The Hoard is just that rich.

Edit: It seems balanced actually. I'm just used to playing no-selling *and* not getting enhanced gold, so I feel wealthier than usual. The Hoard was worth 100K+ for 10 minutes of scumming, but I left him alive and escaped the level when other things started getting too hairy. But 100K won't buy you anything you can't find at depth 45 anyway.

Unrelated comment: I like how monsters follow you on staircases, but I don't think monsters that can't normally follow teleport (Warriors of the Dawn) should be able to follow you when you read a Scroll of Teleport Level.

You get a 50% boost ... But I think the operative word you used was "scumming"

I mean to work on the monster following code at some point, and commented elsewhere that by the time the code executes, the method of leaving the level (stairs, edge of wilderness, recall, teleport level, trap door, rewind time, etc) is lost. I'll need to come up with some way of remembering this ... In the meantime, consider it a challenge! I do feel that there should be no 100% fool proof means of escape, so perhaps I'll leave things as they are?

[Djabanete]

You get a 50% boost ... But I think the operative word you used was "scumming"

I mean to work on the monster following code at some point, and commented elsewhere that by the time the code executes, the method of leaving the level (stairs, edge of wilderness, recall, teleport level, trap door, rewind time, etc) is lost. I'll need to come up with some way of remembering this ... In the meantime, consider it a challenge! I do feel that there should be no 100% fool proof means of escape, so perhaps I'll leave things as they are?

Re: money: the boost feels like a lot (even when I'm not scumming the Hoard I get a lot of cash), but I don't think it's too much. In this game I needed to buy out the alchemist 5-6 times.

As for monsters following... well, it just makes no sense for them to follow when you Teleport Level! If you want to nerf the foolprool escape, you can add a 1-3 turn delay... but Teleport Level doesn't seem too imbalanced to me. You can't usually buy stacks, and using it sacrifices the prospects of the level you're on.

[ekolis]

As for monsters following... well, it just makes no sense for them to follow when you Teleport Level!

Think of it like hiding a shuttle in the warp bubble of a larger ship in Star Trek, perhaps?

[chris]

As for monsters following... well, it just makes no sense for them to follow when you Teleport Level!

Why not? Think of scrolls of teleport, phase door, teleport level, etc as opening up a portal that you step through. Nearby monsters may also enter this portal if they are close enough!

[dzhang]

Yeah, if your Monkey Clone can follow, so can monsters! One thing I found odd was that monsters can surround you after you go up the stairs... presumably you went up first with them following, so how come you're still on the stairs but they're already on the level and surrounding you?

[HugoVirtuoso]

Hey, did anyone know that there was a bug (version 0.7.9 was the last one to have this, AFAIK) in which monsters could follow you from the Arena? One time I got beaten by a Mithril golem, who proceeded to follow me out of the Arena, and kill me in Telemora afterwards. As crazy as this sounds, can this 'bug' be re-instated as a Challenge feature in Chengband? Imagine having very high level Arena monsters running loose in the Town, and chasing you, screen after screen. This would be so amusing. Thanks!

[chem]

If you have 2, then you get -50% spell damage. That seems a bit too powerful ...

I dunno, since runes cannot be replaced once put upon weapons it makes the choice a really hard one. I'm faced with that and Falis for my char right now. Probably going destruction on him.

cheng char #2:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=12976

[Djabanete]

Why not? Think of scrolls of teleport, phase door, teleport level, etc as opening up a portal that you step through. Nearby monsters may also enter this portal if they are close enough!

Even with that rationalization, it's still counter-intuitive that Teleport and Teleport Level should behave differently.