Underdark - band

[Zireael]

I am a newcomer. I've had minimal contact with programming in the form of NWN 1 & 2 scripts and Baldur's Gate modding.

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Now on to what I'm writing about. I want to make an Angband variant set in the Underdark (giant subterranean caverns filled with nasty stuff, for those who do not know D&D).

What would not change:
1. standard rules, including magic (no spheres)
2. method of counting your score
3. classes
4. traps

What I want to have:
1. remove level 0 & have a chance of outposts [shop(s)] appearing in the level
2. no endgame
3. new monster list (named monsters, LOTR-specific monsters, farmer Maggot, urchins etc. have to go)
4. new player race list
5. Unangband level generator (the one with lava, vines, blood, lakes etc.)

What I'd like to have if it's possible:
1. horizontal passages (you go in, you have a new level generated like you'd walked up or down stairs, but the depth stays the same)
2. being able to [E]at corpses for sustenance
3. limited containers (small chest, sack, bag) you can carry stuff in
4. A way to label level 1-30 Upperdark, 31-60 Middledark, 61-90... Lowerdark
5. monsters flocking to a character that holds a light source (a torch, lantern etc.)
6. multiclassing
7. templates at creation (half-fiend, vampire etc.)
8. two-weapon fighting

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I need your help.

The stuff is listed in a rough order of importance. I understand the easiest thing to do is 3 & 4 from 'what I want to have' - it is enough to edit the monsters.txt and pc_race.txt.

I wonder, which variant should I try forking? Vanilla ...? Unangband, ZAngband+ ...?

I'd credit happily any person who would decide to help me.

Thanks in advance,
Zireael

[Antoine]

OK, so I suspect the hard things will be:

> 1. remove level 0 & have a chance of outposts [shop(s)] appearing in the level

(unless you start with a variant with dungeonshops)

> 5. Unangband level generator (the one with lava, vines, blood, lakes etc.)

(unless you start with a variant with Un terrains, such as NPP)

> 6. multiclassing

(which can perhaps be omitted, but replaced by adding new classes halfway between two existing ones, etc?)

A.

[Zireael]

Thanks for a quick reply.

So there exists a variant with dungeon shops? Give me a name, I'll check it out.

About levels - you think I should try forking NPP then? It's a bit old, if I read the right date... 2005...

Multiclassing is about the last thing necessary, it is just on my wishlist :P

Would there be someone willing to help me with programming?
I can do monster tables and player races, if I read it right and the only thing necessary is editing the .txt files...

[Raggy]

Thanks for a quick reply.

So there exists a variant with dungeon shops? Give me a name, I'll check it out.

About levels - you think I should try forking NPP then? It's a bit old, if I read the right date... 2005...

http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=4150

[Nick]

Now on to what I'm writing about. I want to make an Angband variant set in the Underdark (giant subterranean caverns filled with nasty stuff, for those who do not know D&D).

This sounds very cool. I'll point toward where you might find the features you're after.

1. remove level 0 & have a chance of outposts [shop(s)] appearing in the level

ToME 2 certainly has dungeon shops; I'm not sure if any other *bands do, but it should not be too hard to do.

2. no endgame

I don't know what you mean here - no final enemy to defeat, maybe?

3. new monster list (named monsters, LOTR-specific monsters, farmer Maggot, urchins etc. have to go)
4. new player race list

Easy, and fun - initially just changing names and descriptions of ones you want to remove might be a good way to start.

5. Unangband level generator (the one with lava, vines, blood, lakes etc.)

As Antoine said, NPP (which has had new releases in the last year) uses Un terrain, as does Un, obviously.

1. horizontal passages (you go in, you have a new level generated like you'd walked up or down stairs, but the depth stays the same)

Easy enough - define passages like stairs, but don't increase the depth.

2. being able to [E]at corpses for sustenance

ToME 2 at least does this, and several variants have corpses or body parts dropped. These just need to be given food value.

3. limited containers (small chest, sack, bag) you can carry stuff in

Un does this very effectively.

4. A way to label level 1-30 Upperdark, 31-60 Middledark, 61-90... Lowerdark

There would be lots of ways of doing this - just a direct relabelling of depth is easiest. FAangband has a big table of levels and connectivity, which would also deal nicely with the passage issue.

5. monsters flocking to a character that holds a light source (a torch, lantern etc.)

So the character can attract monsters less if they don't wield a light? There have been some interesting things done with monsters being awake but unaware in DaJAngband

6. multiclassing

Interesting. That will be a challenge; Sangband (which has skills rather than classes) may be helpful.

7. templates at creation (half-fiend, vampire etc.)

Do you mean for monsters?

8. two-weapon fighting

Several *bands do this, notably Heng/Entro/Cheng.

NPP is probably a good one to fork from, but I'd have a look at a few and decide which you like the look of best. I'd also recommend putting up a public code repository somewhere collaboration is easy - there are several *bands at github, so that's the obvious choice.

Good luck!

[Zireael]

Quote:
2. no endgame
I don't know what you mean here - no final enemy to defeat, maybe?

Exactly, it's what I mean.

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I've downloaded NPP Angband, and I've edited the pc_race.txt, swapping Drow for hobbit. So far, everything works. Next races to be added are Duergar and Svirfnebli.

EDIT: Duergar and Svirfnebli are in. Next stop - Half-Drow. (all are swaps - for Half-Troll, for Dunadan and for something else).

A few questions: Is there a way to add Spell Resistance for Drow? Right now it's just high saves. Is there a way to add Spell-like abilities somehow? Is there a way to increase the Svirfnebli (deep gnome)'s AC?

EDIT: I'll start tinkering with the monster list this evening or tomorrow.

[Therem Harth]

I've downloaded NPP Angband, and I've edited the pc_race.txt, swapping Drow for hobbit. So far, everything works. Next races to be added are Duergar and Svirfnebli.

A few questions: Is there a way to add Spell Resistance for Drow? Right now it's just high saves. Is there a way to add Spell-like abilities somehow? Is there a way to increase the Svirfnebli (deep gnome)'s AC?

Spell Resistance... If you mean what I think you mean, the problem is Angband doesn't distinguish between magical and nonmagical attacks. The best way I could see of doing this would be (if NPP supported it) to give Drow several high resists intrinsically - I'm thinking specifically Nether, Nexus, and Confusion.

(To compensate for that, Drow should probably start off weak. Not that I know anything about game balance, mind.)

Spell-like abilities... I assume you mean something like the Create Darkness monster spell, so that Drow could fight in the dark? This unfortunately would require some code editing - first to give them that ability (I don't think NPP has race/class abilities), second to make them capable of seeing in the dark (because Angband really punishes you for not carrying a light).

[RickWaza]

IIRC, Z+ has a number of these features. Ghouls can eat corpses, Vampires have a non-light feature to see w/o light, and many races have intrinsic skills/spells. Take a look at it's feature list and see what you can find.

[Derakon]

You're going to have to make changes to the code to do much of what you want. While there's plenty of variants that have made similar changes in the past (e.g. intrinsic magical abilities are in basically every variant descended from ZAngband), porting those over into whatever variant you decide to split from won't be entirely trivial.

[Zireael]

You're going to have to make changes to the code to do much of what you want. While there's plenty of variants that have made similar changes in the past (e.g. intrinsic magical abilities are in basically every variant descended from ZAngband), porting those over into whatever variant you decide to split from won't be entirely trivial.

Exactly, that is why I posted here, because that'd be for whoever would want to help me. I'll just stick to the easier stuff.

[Derakon]

Well, if you find someone willing to help you, all the better, but I wouldn't count on it. Most variants are one-person jobs. Sorry for being pessimistic.

[Therem Harth]

Personally I'd suggest taking a look at the code, if you have the time.

You mentioned that you wrote scripts and mods for other RPGs. This sounds like it implies some level of understanding of how to design stuff - something much more important than being familiar with C, the basics of which are not that hard to pick up.

(C does do some tricky stuff with pointers and arrays, but if you follow the examples in the Angband source code you generally won't create horrible bugs.)

Edit: BTW it helps to be familiar with the command line. grep (or the Windows equivalent, I think that would be FindStr?) is invaluable when working with... any source code, really.

[d_m]

(C does do some tricky stuff with pointers and arrays, but if you follow the examples in the Angband source code you generally won't create horrible bugs.)

This is true, except when it's not.

In particular, there are some tricky low-level things in a few places. But I agree with the basic sentiment. In fact, I would say it is often traditional for Angband developers to not know C before working on Angband!

[JohnCW9]

Exactly, it's what I mean.

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I've downloaded NPP Angband, and I've edited the pc_race.txt, swapping Drow for hobbit. So far, everything works. Next races to be added are Duergar and Svirfnebli.

EDIT: Duergar and Svirfnebli are in. Next stop - Half-Drow. (all are swaps - for Half-Troll, for Dunadan and for something else).

A few questions: Is there a way to add Spell Resistance for Drow? Right now it's just high saves. Is there a way to add Spell-like abilities somehow? Is there a way to increase the Svirfnebli (deep gnome)'s AC?

Sangband has spell resistance in as skill can learn and each race has a different leaning rate.

John

[Zireael]

*scratches head*

What do I need to look into the source code? Some special program...? Or would ConTEXT be enough?

If all Angband variants are written in the same language, porting a given feature from one variant to another should be easy.... or shouldn't it?



I played ZPlusAngband a moment ago. I like it, but the .txt files are different than in NPPAngband and I think it'd be easier to fork NPP Angband.

NPP Angband has no automatic opening doors (without typing 'o' every time, just arrows on the keyboard) which is annoying. And no low hp warning.

ZPlusAngband has the [U] Powers, whatever they are really called, and those could be useful for spell-like abilities.

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That's all for thinking today. Tomorrow I'll mess around with NPP Angband's monster list, and in the meantime I'll be waiting for your opinions on the above.

I'm going to look at source code:
a) after I come back from holidays
b) when I know what to use to look at it

@ Therem Harth: That's true! I've got no stomach for programming anything, but I can be quite persistent when I want something to work!

BTW if you know how to do smth from my list or have the source code from the relevant variant, could you post the code here? I'm not saying that you have to work on something new, just what exists in some variant, show me what part of the code it is...

I'll credit the person who helped me in the readme for my variant.