Towards FAangband 1.2

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  • LostTemplar
    Knight
    • Aug 2009
    • 670

    #31
    You get 1 die worth of damage affected by deadliness and slay per round at most and 20 mana burned. e.g. with ringil and 200 deadliness against evil you will have 13 bonus damage per round from mana burn, it is about 3% of your total damage. with 1d23 slay evil, bonus will be about 54 dmg/round, 10%, not too good also.

    Monsters like dragons are likely to be out of mana quickly, due to low mana pool, but they are more dangerous without mana.

    Comment

    • thapper
      Adept
      • Aug 2008
      • 168

      #32
      Yeah, I was probably thinking about dragons, and I had not thought about the point that some monsters actually gets more dangerous without mana.

      Comment

      • LostTemplar
        Knight
        • Aug 2009
        • 670

        #33
        Dragon with mana will try to blind, confuse, or scare player allmost allways, very low chance for breath, without mana it will breath any time, it gets roll for ranged attack. This is indeed broken AI, but it is how it works now. Manaburn makes e.g. Glaurung much harder to kill, another example is WD of storm, just fodder for a warrior and nightmare for rogue, well not really, but how often do you clear storm dragon pits with mana burning melee ?.

        This does not apply strictly to dragons with nasty summons e.g. WD of balance or power, but anyway you are going to use ASC against them probably, or just avoid.
        Last edited by LostTemplar; February 8, 2011, 10:16.

        Comment

        • LostTemplar
          Knight
          • Aug 2009
          • 670

          #34
          One more possibility to balance mana burn vs Morgoth is giving him something terrible, that he can use without mana, e.g. more powerfull version of breath attack.

          Comment

          • camlost
            Sangband 1.x Maintainer
            • Apr 2007
            • 523

            #35
            Originally posted by LostTemplar
            One more possibility to balance mana burn vs Morgoth is giving him something terrible, that he can use without mana, e.g. more powerfull version of breath attack.
            That runs the risk of making Morgoth harder for people with manaburn than without, which is backwards.

            If manaburn and questors are a problem, then there are a few options:
            1) Make questors immune or resistant. Or not require mana, or have a metric boatload of it.

            2) Increase mana regen rate for questors, especially at low mana, which might result in being able to cast spells with reasonable frequency. Of course, finding the proper rate is perhaps very hard.

            3) Add a spell that gives questors time to recoup. Perhaps a combination of thrustaway and mana regain? Perhaps it could give the player (and nearby monsters?) more mana too.
            a chunk of Bronze {These look tastier than they are. !E}
            3 blank Parchments (Vellum) {No french novels please.}

            Comment

            • LostTemplar
              Knight
              • Aug 2009
              • 670

              #36
              That runs the risk of making Morgoth harder for people with manaburn than without, which is backwards
              Something terrible should not be stronger then his current spells, just comparable, maybe just couple of his spells may have 0 mana cost, definitely not all, manaburn still must hurt him, just not render completely helpless (his melee is nothing to care about).

              Comment

              • Fendell Orcbane
                Swordsman
                • Apr 2010
                • 460

                #37
                Originally posted by LostTemplar
                Dragon with mana will try to blind, confuse, or scare player allmost allways, very low chance for breath, without mana it will breath any time, it gets roll for ranged attack. This is indeed broken AI, but it is how it works now. Manaburn makes e.g. Glaurung much harder to kill, another example is WD of storm, just fodder for a warrior and nightmare for rogue, well not really, but how often do you clear storm dragon pits with mana burning melee ?.

                This does not apply strictly to dragons with nasty summons e.g. WD of balance or power, but anyway you are going to use ASC against them probably, or just avoid.
                I think that create doors works as well if not better than ASC. I say this because you have a lot of creatures that dig. Like WDOP. I hate them. But with create doors I'm willing to step up to them: )

                Comment

                • Fendell Orcbane
                  Swordsman
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 460

                  #38
                  Originally posted by LostTemplar
                  IMHO currently mana burn is a bit broken. It adds very small amount of damage against monsters with mana, and reduce thier mana, so it is useless if monster dies before it's mana is reduced to 0, and this happens in 99% of fights, but it is extremely overpowered if monster mana is eliminated before monster is seriosly hurt e.g. Morgoth or Ungoliath.

                  It can be remade, so instead of reducing monster mana it only adds damage, proportional to mana, but this additional damage should be significant.

                  I want some feedback on this subject.
                  I'm with you on the Mana burn. With my last winner Morgoth got to summon 3 times before he ran out of mana. Sauron wasn't too hard either. With my first winner I was scared of Morgoth. Of course I wasn't ready for him just summoning Winged Dragons. Maybe mana burn is too powerful and should be removed?

                  Comment

                  • Nick
                    Vanilla maintainer
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 9637

                    #39
                    If anyone's wondering, I have not abandoned this - in fact I'm a long way toward moving FA as close to V's codebase as possible. I hadn't planned on quite such a complete change, but once I got started...

                    I've had a couple of changes of mind, too - mostly from becoming more aware of details of differences. I'm going to keep squelch (more or less) as it is - FA egos, curses and jewellery don't really fit the V model. I'm also not going to touch stores, because there's a possibility they'll be gone soon

                    I'm hoping that 1.2 is weeks away rather than months.
                    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                    Comment

                    • Fendell Orcbane
                      Swordsman
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 460

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Nick
                      If anyone's wondering, I have not abandoned this - in fact I'm a long way toward moving FA as close to V's codebase as possible. I hadn't planned on quite such a complete change, but once I got started...

                      I've had a couple of changes of mind, too - mostly from becoming more aware of details of differences. I'm going to keep squelch (more or less) as it is - FA egos, curses and jewellery don't really fit the V model. I'm also not going to touch stores, because there's a possibility they'll be gone soon

                      I'm hoping that 1.2 is weeks away rather than months.
                      So no more stores? Why ? And as for 1.2 being weeks away...I feel like I'm just getting into 1.6 : )

                      Comment

                      • Nick
                        Vanilla maintainer
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 9637

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Fendell Orcbane
                        So no more stores? Why ?
                        Well, I'm thinking (some vague ideas upthread) of redoing wilderness, and might make the buying mechanic a bit different - perhaps have actual NPCs you can buy from. We'll see.
                        One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                        In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                        Comment

                        • Fendell Orcbane
                          Swordsman
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 460

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Nick
                          Well, I'm thinking (some vague ideas upthread) of redoing wilderness, and might make the buying mechanic a bit different - perhaps have actual NPCs you can buy from. We'll see.
                          I think that having NPC's that you can buy stuff from would be so cool : )

                          Comment

                          • Nick
                            Vanilla maintainer
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 9637

                            #43
                            Latest

                            Looks like the advice on this update will be "Don't update a live character" - I'm in the process of breaking the way existing specialties are stored.
                            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                            In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                            Comment

                            • Bostock
                              Swordsman
                              • Aug 2007
                              • 335

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Nick
                              Well, I'm thinking (some vague ideas upthread) of redoing wilderness
                              I'm really looking forward to this!
                              So you ride yourselves over the fields and you make all your animal deals and your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.

                              Comment

                              • andrewdoull
                                Unangband maintainer
                                • Apr 2007
                                • 872

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Nick
                                perhaps have actual NPCs you can buy from.
                                ...















                                (Stupid message length restrictions prevent me making this message just be 3 characters long.)
                                The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
                                In UnAngband, the level dives you.
                                ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
                                Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com

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