Towards FAangband 1.2

[Nick]

FA 1.1 has been out nearly a year now (with various incremental improvements so it's up to 1.1.6), and I'm just starting to do some serious work on 1.2. So far there are some things that are definitely happening:

1. Moving the low level code to AngbandBase (broadly speaking the same as V3.2);
2. Doing a recolouring of monsters and object flavours using the new V colours;
3. Some modifications to dungeon generation, including possibly a "hard mode" with more vaults, pits etc.;
4. Possibly some tweaking of the wilderness layout to mitigate the trek across half Middle Earth before Hobbits et al find a dungeon.

I have been playing RePos (for the comp) recently, which is in many respects just like V3.2. I already had some ideas for FA1.2, and this has given me a bunch more. Here's a list of all the ones I can think of at the moment:

• V squelch - it seems to me to have surpassed FA squelch.
• V trap detection, both the green line and the rectangular detect area.
• Stacks of potions and scrolls in the dungeon.
• Knowing the number of charges on devices.
• Fractional blows.
• Percentage healing for potions of Cure x Wounds.
• Record of where items were found.
• Store interface (!).

And here is a list of things I am not planning to change:

• ID-by-use
• Object generation
• Monster generation

The development work will be happening on github; I will be pushing at least one development branch there fairly soon. Anyone who wants to help, or experiment with any changes, or whatever, is most welcome to make their own fork. Launchpad will still be the main place for bug reporting for now.

I am expecting that 1.2.0 will probably break some functionality. The upside of this is that I will be ironing out the issues with AngbandBase as I go along, which should have good effects on the quality and range of ports for FA and O at least, and likely V and RePos and anything that moves to using AngbandBase. I intend (at this moment ) to continue bugfixes to the 1.1.x series as well.

I am most interested in any feedback on any of this, including but not limited to commentary on what is on which list and why. I am particularly interested in hearing from people with enough recent experience of both FA and V to make a decent comparison.

[Fendell Orcbane]

I haven't even played the new V yet...I'm liking FA too much to go back... that plus the fact that I should be studying will most likely keep me away from V. But I do like the idea of fractional blows. Helps spread the love if you know what I mean.

[LostTemplar]

# Stacks of potions and scrolls in the dungeon.

IMHO this is one of many bad things, vanilla have, this will increase role of luck and randomness in the game.

# Percentage healing for potions of Cure x Wounds.

This will probably make game too easy, but if you want to make the game easy, this is a good choice.

[Derakon]

IMHO this is one of many bad things, vanilla have, this will increase role of luck and randomness in the game.

It really depends on what you have show up in stacks. Generally I'd say that you do this for an item that's not worth losing an inventory slot for if you only get one of the item, but can be worth carrying if you get several. It's not like we complain when we find stacks of ammo or wands with more than 1 charge, after all.

[LostTemplar]

More stacks with less ammo will be better imho, while I do not complain about current state, I still think, that consumables are too random even now.

And I never really care about inventory slots. It seems, that when all slots are filled with usefull things, hard part of the game is over, and relaxing hack & slash begins. I allmost allways carry things I never use, like additional types of food, that I can throw away if I need slot for something else.

Fractional blows

If this means one blow per round with less energy used, the same way as archery, this will be huge buff to all melee combat, since you will never be double moved in melee, it should be considered carefully.

[pampl]

What about changing item list so that it lists the relative location of items? That's one of my most missed V features when I play FA

[buzzkill]

What about changing item list so that it lists the relative location of items? That's one of my most missed V features when I play FA

... and splitting it into 4 mini-lists (NE, NW, SE, SW). It might not seem like a big deal to a ASCII players, but when you're playing with tiles (limited visibility) having this stuff split up into 4 basic quadrants would be great.

[nppangband]

Here's a list of all the ones I can think of at the moment:

• V squelch - it seems to me to have surpassed FA squelch.
• V trap detection, both the green line and the rectangular detect area.
• Stacks of potions and scrolls in the dungeon.
• Knowing the number of charges on devices.
• Fractional blows.
• Percentage healing for potions of Cure x Wounds.
• Record of where items were found.
• Store interface (!).

I to am getting a little "squelch envy". I like the objects invisible instead of purple dot, and only have them destroyed upon command, instead of being crushed when you step on them.

And here is a list of things I am not planning to change:

• ID-by-use
• Object generation
• Monster generation

Those are the things I go back and forth on the most.

Good luck. Since I have recently done much of the same things, let me know if you are wondering which way to tackle some of the code conversation. I can at least share with you the dumb mistakes I made that I wouldn't wish on anybody. I hope to someday soon stea some of your good ideas from FA.

[Nick]

Item and monster lists should also be updated to V3.2.0 standard at least.

Good luck. Since I have recently done much of the same things, let me know if you are wondering which way to tackle some of the code conversation. I can at least share with you the dumb mistakes I made that I wouldn't wish on anybody. I hope to someday soon stea some of your good ideas from FA.

Well, the plan is to import the AngbandBase code, make everything work, and then import the higher level V stuff I want (plus things like your message patch).

And please steal as much stuff from FA as you like - I have had whole releases where the changelist has been dominated by "Stole feature X from NPP"

[Seany C]

Sounds good, Nick - on a line-by-line basis:

<QUOTE>Some modifications to dungeon generation, including possibly a "hard mode" with more vaults, pits etc.; </QUOTE>
Hmm...sounds a bit like turning autoscum up to 11 - applied to wilderness or just to dungeons?

<quote>Possibly some tweaking of the wilderness layout to mitigate the trek across half Middle Earth before Hobbits et al find a dungeon. </quote>
Yay - personally, I'd love to see the map expanded (maybe away from a paths format, towards a less-directional map where you could explore every square on the continent). Any chance of bringing in new explorable wilderness for areas without dungeons/guardians - Hithlum, Nevrast, Balar, even the First Age versions of Rhun or Harad?
Caveat: it could end up feeling a bit too much like ToME 2.X if you expand much beyond Beleriand, to be fair...

<quote>V squelch - it seems to me to have surpassed FA squelch.</quote>
Fine - I don't use it much (I only really use squelch for TMJ variants like ToME/Z).

<quote>V trap detection, both the green line and the rectangular detect area. </quote>
As long as you don't bring in the bright green flash (is that V or NPP?) that always gives me a fright.

<quote>Stacks of potions and scrolls in the dungeon.</quote>
Fine - although it might make things a little too easy. Arguably reduces the need for merchants and makes ironman a little easier?

<quote>Knowing the number of charges on devices. </quote>
Good - seems consistent with ID-by-use.

<quote>Fractional blows.</quote>
Again good - the whole number blow breakpoints always felt a bit contrived.

<quote>Percentage healing for potions of Cure x Wounds. </quote>
I'd be wary of this one, without a bit of playtesting. To take a hypothetical example, a CL6 Petty-Dwarf Necro might well have 20-25 max HP. At the moment, chugging CSW potions will restore at least half those HP, if not all of them. With %healing potions, a !CSW might well heal a low-HP char by less HPs than a monster or two can take off in a single round.
(Or, in brief, I'd be worried that %heal will unbalance healing in favour of high-max-HP chars and away from fragile ones).

<quote>Record of where items were found. </quote>
Good for lazy players like me who aren't diligent about annotations.

<quote>Store interface (!).</quote>
Hmm, not sure what this will look like...

Sounds promising overall, though

[Seany C]

Meh - just as well that I never became a coder...

[Nick]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I'll just answer some of those:

Some modifications to dungeon generation, including possibly a "hard mode" with more vaults, pits etc.;

Hmm...sounds a bit like turning autoscum up to 11 - applied to wilderness or just to dungeons?

I was thinking just dungeons, but probably it should be wilderness as well.

Possibly some tweaking of the wilderness layout to mitigate the trek across half Middle Earth before Hobbits et al find a dungeon.

Yay - personally, I'd love to see the map expanded (maybe away from a paths format, towards a less-directional map where you could explore every square on the continent). Any chance of bringing in new explorable wilderness for areas without dungeons/guardians - Hithlum, Nevrast, Balar, even the First Age versions of Rhun or Harad?
Caveat: it could end up feeling a bit too much like ToME 2.X if you expand much beyond Beleriand, to be fair...

I like the way you're thinking, but I'm not sure that I'll get such a serious change in for 1.2. In particular, the directionality has always been a bit of an annoyance to me ... I'll think about possibilities here.

Stacks of potions and scrolls in the dungeon.

Fine - although it might make things a little too easy. Arguably reduces the need for merchants and makes ironman a little easier?

Yes, maybe. I just kind of liked it in RePos without really being sure why...

Percentage healing for potions of Cure x Wounds.

I'd be wary of this one, without a bit of playtesting. To take a hypothetical example, a CL6 Petty-Dwarf Necro might well have 20-25 max HP. At the moment, chugging CSW potions will restore at least half those HP, if not all of them. With %healing potions, a !CSW might well heal a low-HP char by less HPs than a monster or two can take off in a single round.
(Or, in brief, I'd be worried that %heal will unbalance healing in favour of high-max-HP chars and away from fragile ones).

That's a good point. You may have just talked me out of that one.

Store interface (!).

Hmm, not sure what this will look like...

Well, the current V one. Again, I'm not completely convinced, but it seems to make sense to be as like V as possible wherever there's no good reason not to.

[thapper]

I hope the store interface changes won't include switching from the excellent get->object command style that FA uses to the object->get style that V has. I can't count how many times I've bought stuff I didn't want in V. If you are thinking about that I'll try to talk you out of it

About the green detection limit for traps. I'm not entirely sure how it works currently in V but if you implement this, could you see if it is possible to have the green limit visible in tile mode as well? If you are leaving the warning messages in (when entering/leaving the detected area) this is not an issue but if the warnings are replaced by the green limit then I'd like to see it when playing with tiles as well.

The other stuff sounds good (except perhaps the % on healing potions, but you were talked out of that already I see).

[CunningGabe]

In V, the Cure * Wounds potions always restore a minimum amount of HP. For example, Cure Light Wounds heals 15 HP or 15% of the difference between your max HP and current HP, whichever is greater. So it doesn't make it worse for fragile characters -- it just makes these potions relevant for longer.

[HallucinationMushroom]

If you decide to change the store system would it be possible to have old-school shopping as a kind of preference you could click on or off or maybe as a birth option or something like that? For entirely selfish reasons I would prefer the old-school method because I'm simply just so used to the old way.