[Un] Unangband 0.6.2-wip7b has been released

[Bandobras]

Many ways. Spells; throwing any non-permanenet light source, flask of fire, flask of oil; '|' and choose ground '.' if you stand over something flammable. Probably others. Flasks of web are great for throwing, but I never used them for coating! I have to try.

[Pete Mack]

Oh, ok, guess I have to wait for wip7c or something .. compiling myself is out of question ...

Just for the record, compiling is dead easy.

The windows instructions for V at rephial are basically the same as for unangband, with the exception of the svn repository address, and the name of the windows makefile. (Makefile.cyg instead of Makefile.win)

You will need to copy the executable unangband.exe to the parent directory.

[Pete Mack]

Wahhh totally not fair!

Killed by Gravity Hounds, cl 15 dl 22(!) in the Ruins of Angmar.
(I was just trying to get the hell out of there after falling down a chasm, for pity's sake. I was there out of curiosity, and wanted to leave.)

It was a pretty successful character--Goblin Ranger. The available ranger spells are _extensive_, although I'm not sure of the purpose of a Phase Door spell that only works in the dark, or near fire, water, etc.

[andrewdoull]

Killed by Gravity Hounds, cl 15 dl 22(!) in the Ruins of Angmar.
(I was just trying to get the hell out of there after falling down a chasm, for pity's sake. I was there out of curiosity, and wanted to leave.)

It was a pretty successful character--Goblin Ranger. The available ranger spells are _extensive_, although I'm not sure of the purpose of a Phase Door spell that only works in the dark, or near fire, water, etc.

Well, what do you think?

It sounds like melee balance needs some work still.

I might remove the phase door variants from the Ranger and Rogue books - there's not much use for them.

Andrew

[Pete Mack]

Well, what do you think?

It's much better.
Especially better is that lanterns don't lose their oil in deep water. Getting dowsed and tired is more than enough of a problem.

PEEVE:I don't like the fact that it is not possible to run down hallways. Having to single-step whenever there is a wide hallway, gets tedious fast. It's the kind of thing that ends up with you falling in a chasm.

It sounds like melee balance needs some work still.

For the first several levels, melee is pretty brutal, until you get enough str/dex to get a decent melee bonus. Even then, it's not great.

Paladins run out of mana pretty fast, and their bad shooting means they don't have any alternate attack. (Even Bert, Tom, and Bill are pretty tough to kill. The Goblin Ranger took them out fairly easily, with a few mushrooms stolen from Maggot's.)

I might remove the phase door variants from the Ranger and Rogue books - there's not much use for them.

My characters haven't been deep enough to afford the luxury of possibly-interesting spells. I'm too busy getting things like detection. The phase spell that entangles your foes sounds potentially interesting.

[andrewdoull]

It's much better.

Good to know.

Especially better is that lanterns don't lose their oil in deep water. Getting dowsed and tired is more than enough of a problem.

Heard your previous comments on this and responded.

PEEVE:I don't like the fact that it is not possible to run down hallways. Having to single-step whenever there is a wide hallway, gets tedious fast. It's the kind of thing that ends up with you falling in a chasm.

Agreed. I'm still working out how to provide a general fix for this. It's one of the things that stopped me playing Zangband.

For the first several levels, melee is pretty brutal, until you get enough str/dex to get a decent melee bonus. Even then, it's not great.

Paladins run out of mana pretty fast, and their bad shooting means they don't have any alternate attack. (Even Bert, Tom, and Bill are pretty tough to kill. The Goblin Ranger took them out fairly easily, with a few mushrooms stolen from Maggot's.)

I wonder if I should move to the 'every character gets two blows to start with' that Oangband/Sangband have. I won't be adopting O combat though.

Andrew

[Pete Mack]

I wonder if I should move to the 'every character gets two blows to start with' that Oangband/Sangband have. I won't be adopting O combat though.

I think it's just the really awful starting stats that some (most) class/race combinations get. Now that I'm aware of Goblin and Half-goblin races, I may try another paladin. The bow & stealth bonus should make up for much of the Paladin's weakness. And I won't have to suffer the extreme wisdom penalty from Elf races, or suffer the lack of infravision and bad experience penalty of a Dunadan.

[Pete Mack]

One more peeve...

One more peeve. The Ranger Detect Doors/Traps spell is pretty high level (13), with a very high fail. Yet you pretty much have to use it, since carrying spell books means you just don't have room for Detect Door/Stair scrolls. For the brief time I actually had the spell, I found myself waiting for mana to regenerate far more than I ever do in other variants.

Still, I don't know to what extent this is by intent. (For contrast, it's a cl 4 or 5 spell in V, and you get a full-screen area of detection.)

[andrewdoull]

One more peeve. The Ranger Detect Doors/Traps spell is pretty high level (13), with a very high fail. Yet you pretty much have to use it, since carrying spell books means you just don't have room for Detect Door/Stair scrolls. For the brief time I actually had the spell, I found myself waiting for mana to regenerate far more than I ever do in other variants.

Still, I don't know to what extent this is by intent. (For contrast, it's a cl 4 or 5 spell in V, and you get a full-screen area of detection.)

I don't have any objections to dropping this down. It makes sense given the Ranger / Rogue bias towards detection spells.

Andrew

[Arralen]

Speaking about questions: How do I set a tile of "Giant Spider Webs" on fire? Description says its possible ... and it seems to be the only possibility to kill a monster that is stuck in the webs

Many ways. Spells; throwing any non-permanenet light source, flask of fire, flask of oil; '|' and choose ground '.' if you stand over something flammable. Probably others.

Throwing a brass lantern doesn't work.
Standing on the tile and using '|' and choose ground '.' does not work either, the ground is not recognized as something flammable (in my posession?).
edit: "Pint of Orcish Spirits" does not work either ... :/
Bards have no fire spells (at least in the first book), and I'm out of either flasks of oil and torches - btw., how do I light a torch before throwing it??

(Just learned to love web-coated weapons against fast fliers )

Flasks of web are great for throwing, but I never used them for coating! I have to try.

"Great Spider Webs" are impassable for flyers - therefore it's a great help if they try to swarm you. Pity, though, that it's so hard to kill anything which disappears in the webs.
Hmmm.. maybe buring the web ain't that a smart idea sometimes.. what happens if there's not only a monster stuck in them, but some items have vanished there as well? Guess they'll burn up, too ... but I haven't figured out a way to search through webs ...

[andrewdoull]

Standing on the tile and using '|' and choose ground '.' does not work either, the ground is not recognized as something flammable (in my posession?).

For this, you need to be either using a torch or wielding a flame-branded weapon. I figured a lantern flame was too small/unwieldy...

Andrew

[Pete Mack]

For this, you need to be either using a torch or wielding a flame-branded weapon. I figured a lantern flame was too small/unwieldy...

I usually carry a stack of oil-coated ammo for this kind of thing. I don't know if you can shoot it at the ground, however. In any case, a flaming arrow should be enough to start a grass-fire, either by shooting or with '|'

[Bandobras]

I usually carry a stack of oil-coated ammo for this kind of thing. I don't know if you can shoot it at the ground, however. In any case, a flaming arrow should be enough to start a grass-fire, either by shooting or with '|'

I'd vote to let everything to do with fire light the ground with '|', at least everything in equipment, including quiver, including arrows coated with oil. It won't be used much anyway, because it's not just simple bumping into things, so no point making it even more complex and unpopular.

Throwing a brass lantern doesn't work.

Oh, yes I was wrong. Lanters and torches only 'explode' (break, releasing oil/tar) when they hit a monster, unlike flasks that break always. This is to balance them and distinguish their tactical use --- they would be too powerful otherwise. Similarly fire arrows don't explode, so they should only light the ground when carefully applied with '|'. "Pint of Orcish Spirits" not lighting the ground seems like a bug.

I wonder if I should move to the 'every character gets two blows to start with' that Oangband/Sangband have.

I think that could do the trick and it makes heavy weapons even more desirable, which is good. But buff up a bit those classes/styles that start with 2 blows already.

If this does not suffice we should increase the physical stats of non-warrior melee classes. They are quite low right now, on the premises that magic makes them strong (which is absolutely right, just not at the start). Perhaps lower a bit their per-level class melee bonuses to compensate.

Edit: oh, and stat potions should help for bad starting stats, if you have the luck to find them early (you should find some at least before the first dungeon guardian, or perhaps even before the first non-dog unique). What a pity I've probably set their depth wrong again for wip7c. I still don't understand the interplay of 'depth' and 'rarity' fields in object descriptions.

[Daven_26d1]

Another use for flasks of web is blocking LOS; trouble getting past a corridor because of MM patches or eyes pelting you with spells? Use the web flask like a smoke grenade to give you cover!

Un really rocks!

[andrewdoull]

I picked up a "Magical Bag of Supplies", hit "I","b" to have a look at it and the game froze ...

You don't happen to display your inventory in a side window do you? I've just realised that this may be a cause of bag crashes...

Andrew