[all] Some general questions

[quaxocal]

This is going to be a strange post, as I'm not sure how to word it.


How exactly do licenses work for the variants of Angband? It seems like they are open-source, which means anyone can modify the contents as long as they give credit to the original authors and not make any monetary gain on it (must always be freeware). Do you have to have permission from an author to modify things?


I have some experience with C programming (though its been a few years, when I was in college), and a MASSIVE amount of experience with pretty much every kind of rpg imaginable.

So, what I was wanting to do, was taking a variant and updating it and modifying it a bit, to make a more fulfilling and challenging game. How would I go about this? Can I go about this?

Any information would be helpful.

[Magnate]

This is going to be a strange post, as I'm not sure how to word it.

How exactly do licenses work for the variants of Angband? It seems like they are open-source, which means anyone can modify the contents as long as they give credit to the original authors and not make any monetary gain on it (must always be freeware). Do you have to have permission from an author to modify things?

I have some experience with C programming (though its been a few years, when I was in college), and a MASSIVE amount of experience with pretty much every kind of rpg imaginable.

So, what I was wanting to do, was taking a variant and updating it and modifying it a bit, to make a more fulfilling and challenging game. How would I go about this? Can I go about this?

Any information would be helpful.

Angband has its own licence, which is included with every distribution (and every variant, I think). It is fairly liberal, much as you expect above. You can modify stuff, but can't charge money for it, and need to credit original authors whose work you modify. Some variants may have slightly different licences.

There is a project to bring Angband (Vanilla) fully under the GPL, but it is unfinished - several people remain to be contacted to release their contributions under the GPL.

The bottom line is that nobody is likely to object to you releasing any modified version of V or any other existing variant, providing you give proper credit to whoever's work you use. (With the possible exception of the author of Utumno who is rumoured to have a bee in his bonnet about such things - but since nobody's heard of him for years, and Utumno is extremely unlikely to be the variant you choose to use for your modifications, all should be well.)

Good luck,

CC

[quaxocal]

Well the two I'd be most likely to work with would be either Angband or Zangband (the two that I'm most comfortable with playing, its hard to get into some of the others, and a couple I won't play because I just can't deal with all the ASCII symbols for graphics).

So seems like as long as credit is given to the original authors (who wouldn't do that) and nothing charged, then can be modified as seen fit.

Which leads me to another question.


Are there any good programs around which would enable me to play with the code in the .exe files and other files in Angband (or another variant)?

[ekolis]

Well, all you really need to hack around with the code is 2 things:
1. The source code (no sense trying to decompile the EXE's when the source is freely available! )
2. A C compiler (though one with an IDE - Integrated Development Environment - is much preferred unless you are a C guru!)

The first is freely available from http://rephial.org/ and the second you can find pretty much anywhere... Seeing as you mentioned an EXE, you're probably running WIndows, so here are some free IDE's you can mess with that will run on Windows:

1. Eclipse - www.eclipse.org - It's designed mainly for Java, but it's also got a module you can grab which lets you write C and C++ code.

2. Netbeans - www.netbeans.org - Again, another Java IDE with a C++ plugin module. Not quite as fancy as Eclipse, but it's easier to get installed.

3. Visual C++ Express - http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/ - The free basic edition of Microsoft's C++ IDE.

4. Dev-C++ - http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html - I'm not too familiar with this one, but some people swear by it...

There are many others as well, those are just the four I could come up with off the top of my head...

[quaxocal]

Alright, so these compliers would be able to build the source code into the necessary files? Its been years since I've done such work lol. I definitely don't qualify as a C guru, so I'll definitely take your advice.

Those links are much appreciated.


I'm mostly looking to taking a version and balancing everything better (Angband and Zangband seem to both have alot of issues here, no offense to anyone ), up the difficulty (especially later on), and tweak other stuff as well. Leaning toward Zangband, since Angband has an active maintainer going at the moment.

[ekolis]

Well, those are IDE's actually - depending on which one you choose you may need to download a compiler and configure the IDE for use with it, but the IDE website or manual should have instructions on how to do that. Visual C++, for instance, comes with a compiler, but it's mainly geared toward .NET; you'd have to get the Windows SDK package to do plain old C. (There are instructions on the download page for how to do that.) Eclipse, on the other hand - I believe it requires a gcc type compiler, which can be found in mingw or cygwin, and I don't think those are included with it. Netbeans I'm not sure about (I've only used it for Java), and Dev-C++ uses a gcc type compiler like Eclipse does.

[quaxocal]

Sounds a bit complicated but I think I can figure it out.


Any other suggestions or advice as to what would work best? You've been very helpful. I just want to use something which will be easy to use and easy to compile everything.

[ekolis]

Well, I currently use Eclipse for Java development - if you're into turn-based strategy check this out: http://kolis.dyndns.org/cosmic :-) - and I think it's really handy, but I haven't done much C or C++ with it (or much C/C++ at all for that matter!) Actually I'd like to write my own roguelike if I could, but every time I try I just get bogged down, and I've tried writing ToME modules, but ToME uses an old version of Lua, which confuses me... I doubt I could make much sense of the Angband code, given my preference for more modern programming languages than C... though maybe I could read the docs on the edit files and come up with some sort of "Angband Modder's Tool" which allows at least SOME customization of the game... hmmm...

[quaxocal]

Well I'll definitely give one of them a try this weekend and see what I can do. Thanks for your help.

I'll post here if I have any problems with getting them to work, since you know what you're talking about.

[camlost]

For some (somewhat outdated?) information on compiling the source, read:

http://www.thangorodrim.net/compiling.html

Also, if you care to look at the source for Sangband, there is some information on compiling it in /docs/compile.txt

If you have access to a newsreader, consider reading rec.games.roguelike.angband, or try reading the news on this site. Some people have made some suggestions on what C compilers to use there, and it's also another good source for information, especially when it comes to angband development.

Joshua

[takkaria]

For some (somewhat outdated?) information on compiling the source, read:
http://www.thangorodrim.net/compiling.html

Also try slightly more up-to-date information, available at: http://rephial.org/wiki/Compiling

[nobody]

the mention of Utumno has brought up a question for me, where can i get Utumno? can't seem to find it

[Daven_26d1]

So, what I was wanting to do, was taking a variant and updating it and modifying it a bit, to make a more fulfilling and challenging game. How would I go about this? Can I go about this?

If you just want to make a variant a little more challenging etc, many, many people have simply provided patches and mods over the years; I've seen, variously: diff files, binary patches for Win .exes, instructions for manual edits of source code, replacement edit files etc.

Patches basically cut down on download time, are easy to find a host for (because there are sites already hosting user patches for many variants) and you may end up seeing your patch worked into the main release if its really good or popular.

Patches also allow users to use some, but not all, of your mods if they so desire.

That said, if you fancy doing a truly major update, and you're as interested in Z as you appear to be, I know for a *fact* that a whole bunch of people are crying out for someone to do an updated version of that particular project...

Anyways, best of luck! :]

[quaxocal]

Well, what I'm looking to do is basically like this (I think I'm definitely going for Zangband):

1) Overhaul alot of the numbers for Races and Classes (I feel some classes are too weak others too easy, while some of the races are overpowered others next to worthless and others barely played).

1a) Also considering adding a new class or two (Archer comes to mind, as the bow equivalent of a warrior). Also was thinking Archmage (able to use 3 schools of magic but can only use the first 3 books in each, OR as an alternative to that, maybe one primary realm with 4 books, a secondary with 3, and a teritary with 2).

2) Clean up the spellbooks. I think its absurd that there is a spell learnable at level 2 in the 3rd sorcery book for a high mage, or learnable at level 5 in the 4th life spell book for a priest. Some spells also are underpowered for where they are (dark bolt in particular comes to mind, its in the 3rd death book and is WEAKER than nether bolt which is in the 2nd book....and to top that off, sometimes nether bolt is available earlier and cheaper!) Other spells just don't seem to have enough punch (Nature's Wrath comes to mind).

3) Sift through the monsters, and try to balance depth and other stats.

4) Sift through the weapons and armor and other items, and try to make them more useful (alot of weapons and armor in particular are absolutely WORTHLESS to use).

5) Increase the challenge (certain items would be rarer or found only at lower depths, like I think the stat potions being heavily available in the 30's and 40's is too much). Later monsters would be more powerful. With this in mind, some spells will be upped and Warriors, Monks and Rogues in particular would be given boosts. From what I've read and observed myself, Zangband can be difficult early on (especially for spell-reliant classes) but gets easier in the end (globe of invulnerability, hellfire, call the void, +50 speed, etc.).

5a) Also looking at possible ways to speed up the game some too (it does take a long time to descend the levels, especially for newer players).


I'm certainly open to more suggestions. Just keep in mind that until I get my feet wet with the code and how everything works, most of what would be changed is numbers, and stuff added would be "copies and changes" of what's already there (like a new class).

[ekolis]

2) Clean up the spellbooks. I think its absurd that there is a spell learnable at level 2 in the 3rd sorcery book for a high mage, or learnable at level 5 in the 4th life spell book for a priest.

Absurd? Nah, I think it adds something to the game, namely making the rare find of such a high-level book actually useful for a low-level character. But then again, I could be wrong...