Which would you say is the *hardest* class to play ?

[Egavactip]

I probably would have voted druid.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I find this question unanswerable. And I have won with every race/class combination. Well, except for the new classes, in which I've won with every class, but not every combination yet. Which is easiest? Which is hardest? If you add race into the combo some answers start to come out, but just class? Sure mage is hard in the early game, but is nearly unstoppable in the late game. With any class, I'd say it depends upon what @ finds along the way. A few great finds can change what was hard to easy very quickly.

[swim]

I find this question unanswerable. And I have won with every race/class combination. Well, except for the new classes, in which I've won with every class, but not every combination yet. Which is easiest? Which is hardest? If you add race into the combo some answers start to come out, but just class? Sure mage is hard in the early game, but is nearly unstoppable in the late game. With any class, I'd say it depends upon what @ finds along the way. A few great finds can change what was hard to easy very quickly.

As a new player who really second-guesses his choices when I'm hours into a run...... Thanks I needed to read this =p

[Archenoth]

The hardest class for me was Druid. I managed to get pretty good DPS out of my fox form because of my increased attack count combined with attack damage bonuses from Nimthanc, but even with that benefit, I felt it still falls pretty far behind other classes in terms of killing power.

They have the potential for absolutely incredible stealth and survivability in OOD locations, but because of the damage output, actually being able to capitalize on being OOD is a significantly larger gamble than anything else I've played.

Like, my last game I managed to get to level 53 as a level 32 Druid because of the fox form, but I never found any artifacts that let me actually gain experience without it being a colossal risk, to the point where I actually died to plasma hounds next to some stairs of all things!

They are a really interesting challenge--of which I say "challenge" in a pretty comprehensive way.

[Selkie]

Like, my last game I managed to get to level 53 as a level 32 Druid because of the fox form, but I never found any artifacts that let me actually gain experience without it being a colossal risk, to the point where I actually died to plasma hounds next to some stairs of all things!

.

I've played a lot of druids and what you say has intrigued me. I hardly ever use fox form, especially in the early game because with my weedy weapon and the strength nerf I'm often not even hurting monsters.

However, looking at the game data there might actually be some playability in an early game melee fox. You'd need to sink extra points into the strength stat at the start, but losing a bit of wisdom wouldn't matter if you weren't so reliant on the druid offensive spells.

name:fox
combat:-3:-3:3
obj-flags:FEATHER | FREE_ACT
values:STR[-3] | STEALTH[5] | BLOWS[1] | MOVES[1]
blow:bite
blow:claw

I think if you could wield a big heavy weapon then the extra blow could be really powerful - especially combined with the extra movement and stealth. I will experiment some more

[wobbly]

Fox form melee is pretty good with the right weapon. I quite like druids, they're amazing at kiting stuff.

[Sky]

i have finally gotten a ranger to CL31 (first TO) and i have about 15 dead bodies on my conscience. And my TO is at 46% fail (fails two times out of 3 attempts, IRL).

I am still at DL35 and i suck at absolutely everything. I have no pBlind, 300hp, 100 DPS, and my arrows do 100 DPS. Speed +0.

I still have to MM stuff; this is by far the hardest class to get to "game won unless idiot" territory.

[Pete Mack]

Sky--
Rogue has an even worse initial TO fail rate. But you shouldn't really need it yet, what with wands. It's the Haste Self spell that is initially more valuable.

As for the rest... that's not the class, that's just luck. As for MM: Why???? There's an unlimited supply of arrows in the shop. Using attack spells except for the occasional ball spell is a mugs game. (Certainly don't keep Raal when you find it.) And 100 DPS is 200 DPT, and it gives you a better chance to respond to monster attacks.
At the end, the ranger is crazy powerful. You get *Destruction* spell, ammo branding, and a ridiculous three shots/turn.

[Sky]

Sky--
Rogue has an even worse initial TO fail rate. But you shouldn't really need it yet, what with wands. It's the Haste Self spell that is initially more valuable.

As for the rest... that's not the class, that's just luck. As for MM: Why???? There's an unlimited supply of arrows in the shop. Using attack spells except for the occasional ball spell is a mugs game. (Certainly don't keep Raal when you find it.) And 100 DPS is 200 DPT, and it gives you a better chance to respond to monster attacks.
At the end, the ranger is crazy powerful. You get *Destruction* spell, ammo branding, and a ridiculous three shots/turn.

I'm a new character, think CL20.
i carry 3 books, CLW, CSW, CCW, Phase, Recall, SI, Treasure, Mapping, !Mana, RLL, !Speed, whatever ?Tele i can find, !Enlight, 3 stacks of arrows, plus whatever i have found. (that's 19 slots)
I have no pBlind, no pConf, no ESP. No SI.
I have 120hp and can barely melee an orc captain. i do 40 damage with my weapon. Speed zero.

1. 120 arrows do not last long when you have to kill orcs with them. And you need to kill orcs. You need XP.
2. wands of TO do not come cheap, nor are they dropped left and right. My *current* CL33 ranger has yet to ID a wand of TO, at DL37.

So yeah, i use MM. A lot. I already lose enough arrows to fire breaths, without even thinking of shooting them.

also, it was my understanding that we agreed "DPS" damage per turn, at your speed.

[Estie]

1. 120 arrows do not last long when you have to kill orcs with them. And you need to kill orcs. You need XP.

This is your problem. There are far better targets out there, orcs are to be avoided.
Forget about XP completely. They are of no concern. They will come in automatically as you are busy getting gear.

Youre unlucky, but the way out of the weak phase is not to kill orcs. It is to pick up floor items and kill superb targets, like weak uniques and d and p.

[Pete Mack]

Estie--
Yep, you beat me to it. More specifically, the only orcs and trolls you should kill are light sensitive ones in long hallways, unless you have a good stack of rods of lightning bolts as well as rods of light.

[Cuboideb]

After reading this, I should do a no-mob fighting auto-challenge.

[Selkie]

Youre unlucky, but the way out of the weak phase is not to kill orcs. It is to pick up floor items and kill superb targets, like weak uniques and d and p.

Are there any rules about the best low/mid level non-unique treasure droppers? I always find lowest tier dreads drop well. I find ghasts and ghouls are quite good. The spellcasting p's are generally worth a whack.

[swim]

i have finally gotten a ranger to CL31 (first TO) and i have about 15 dead bodies on my conscience. And my TO is at 46% fail (fails two times out of 3 attempts, IRL).

I am still at DL35 and i suck at absolutely everything. I have no pBlind, 300hp, 100 DPS, and my arrows do 100 DPS. Speed +0.

I still have to MM stuff; this is by far the hardest class to get to "game won unless idiot" territory.

What does "TO" and "MM" stand for?

[Estie]

@Selkie:

Those, and almost all low hp undead (W, V, L), and the most glorious of all is the rare death quasit.

The main point is to avoid hordes (unless, as Pete pointed out, you can kill them efficiently with some kind of aoe). Hordes require a long time to kill which usually means you have to invest a lot of time before you get to loot and leave and it gets increasingly more likely that something bad will happen (like, a beholder approaching) which will force you to either abandon the scene before being able to get profit or use more consumables than you intended to.