Playing by the same rules when spellcasting

[bpleshek]

I've noticed that the creatures don't seem to play by the same rules. They don't seem to have a mana store.

Take an example of a creature that has an acid bolt and fire bolt spell and it is not smart. If the player is immune to acid but not fire and the RNG choose to cast 4 acid bolts in a row, perhaps there isn't enough mana left to cast the fire bolt spell.

What are your opinions about applying a mana stat to the creatures?

Brian

[pav]

Many variants added mana points to monsters, and it enables some new interesting strategies when dealing with spellcasting uniques, ie. gambling on their mana supply being depleted.

I certainly welcome this feature. (I play NPP which has it.)

[PowerDiver]

While I agree about the mana, I am just as annoyed that they don't have to walk around using a light source and carrying a spellbook.

[andrewdoull]

While I agree about the mana, I am just as annoyed that they don't have to walk around using a light source and carrying a spellbook.

Whereas I'm merely annoyed that the ones who cast spells in the dark don't drop the appropriate wands/staffs when I kill them.

Andrew

PS: Bring on the inventory-using monsters.

[PowerDiver]

Whereas I'm merely annoyed that the ones who cast spells in the dark don't drop the appropriate wands/staffs when I kill them.

So all of those nov mages are carrying wands of magic missile rather than casting spells at me? I never thought of that! I'd really like to have whatever lets them blink in the dark.

[Atarlost]

It's an interesting thought. If all humanoid monsters carried appropriate gear (books, sticks, swords, lamps, etc) the junk problem would get really bad. It would work for a no-town variant, though, because it would guarantee an endless supply of torches, lamps, and food.

[PowerDiver]

If all humanoid monsters carried appropriate gear (books, sticks, swords, lamps, etc) the junk problem would get really bad.

It would work just fine right now if you used a good squelch system and did not require identify to recognize dross for what it is.

The problem in this case, as in so many cases, is the game design forcing the player to use pseudo and/or identify.

[CJNyfalt]

It would work just fine right now if you used a good squelch system and did not require identify to recognize dross for what it is.

The problem in this case, as in so many cases, is the game design forcing the player to use pseudo and/or identify.

Ah, yes, the identification problem, that subject would have material for a separate thread. One option would be to implement a Diablo II style identification system, where all items are automatically pseudo-ided at drop.
The drawback with this would be that cursed weapons & armor would serve no purpose, since the are automatically spotted, and that it's too much work trying to sell it to the conservatives.

[Big Al]

The drawback with this would be that cursed weapons & armor would serve no purpose, since the are automatically spotted, and that it's too much work trying to sell it to the conservatives.

One solution to this is to make cursed stuff more interesting, so that the player might actually consider using it. Unangband pseudo-id's when objects drop and it works well. The new dev version of vanilla made it so that cursed items aren't always bad - eg. you can find a {cursed} ring of free action - you can't remove it until you find the appropriate spell, but it would still be useful for a while.

[ChodTheWacko]

I've noticed that the creatures don't seem to play by the same rules. They don't seem to have a mana store.

Take an example of a creature that has an acid bolt and fire bolt spell and it is not smart. If the player is immune to acid but not fire and the RNG choose to cast 4 acid bolts in a row, perhaps there isn't enough mana left to cast the fire bolt spell.

What are your opinions about applying a mana stat to the creatures?

Brian

Meh. They can't quaff potions of restore mana, or zap wands or use items that you may use to conserve mana.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it necessarily makes the game more 'fair'.

- Frank

[Pete Mack]

Chod--
the issue is, if you enable AI in V, the game is essentially impossible because there's no way to kill Morgoth--he heals himself faster than you can do damage. (The same holds earlier in the game for other monsters with self-heal.) So if your game has even 3.5GAI, you need some way to rebalance. The usual result is monster mana, in which case it becomes nearly impossible to really hurt Morgoth until he runs out of mana. (Empirically, you need to be doing upward of ~600dam/turn just to keep up with his self-heal.)

[ChodTheWacko]

Chod--
the issue is, if you enable AI in V, the game is essentially impossible because there's no way to kill Morgoth--he heals himself faster than you can do damage. (The same holds earlier in the game for other monsters with self-heal.)

Yeah, can't argue with that, it would make healers almost impossible.

- Frank

[Garrie]

And then there's group monsters with a shamen in the middle of them to think about!
Why is it taking me so long to kill this snaga?

[bpleshek]

Meh. They can't quaff potions of restore mana, or zap wands or use items that you may use to conserve mana.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it necessarily makes the game more 'fair'.

- Frank

Actually, you can remedy this in one of two ways.

1. Just give a creature more mana. More dangerous creatures would have more mana.

2. Give them mana potions. It wouldn't actually HAVE to be mana potions per se, but a 0 mana cost Spell that restores mana. Then the creature could choose to use an action to restore health.

Brian

[awldune]

Chod--
the issue is, if you enable AI in V, the game is essentially impossible because there's no way to kill Morgoth--he heals himself faster than you can do damage. (The same holds earlier in the game for other monsters with self-heal.) So if your game has even 3.5GAI, you need some way to rebalance. The usual result is monster mana, in which case it becomes nearly impossible to really hurt Morgoth until he runs out of mana. (Empirically, you need to be doing upward of ~600dam/turn just to keep up with his self-heal.)

NPP doesn't seem to have this problem, though. I haven't looked at the AI code, but it seems like monsters only have a certain percentage chance of doing the "smartest" thing.

In any case, when powerful monsters start healing themselves, it is usually a good thing. It's a turn and some mana that could have been used to call a mana storm, summon wyrms, etc.