A new opinion on no_selling

[fph]

This has been mentioned in a recent thread as something the community is divided on. There is a past poll on this topic, but it is from 2011.

[Sphara]

Probably the most important thing to vote for in this particular day.

[fiery_mews]

TBH the main reason I like it is the more reliable early game money - it makes it easier to stock up on consumables, esp. including utility stuff like Magic Mapping and Detect Traps. There's kind of a whole snowballing effect from that which IMO makes the early game faster and less frustrating.

[Raerick]

I enjoy not having to think about money.

The wording of this first option kinda highlights a problem I think exists that is mostly irrelevant to no sell vs sell. That problem being that aside from the Alchemist and Blackmarket there is nothing much worth buying past DL20. I don't think dungeon treasures should be marginalized by making too much good stuff available all the time, but when my max depth for a character is 50+ and the Armorer's best stuff is still single resist armor or x of free action there is no point in checking it. Similar for the Weapon shop unless I want to check for a stack of okayish ammo. I think those two shops (and the magic shop) should at least stop carrying so much worthless magical crap I most likely already have set to ignore and at least be carrying something that generates 20 -30 DL below my max depth.

I would also say that all shops should start carrying better stuff over time more than they do. Not to a degree that removes challenging dangerous scenarios to get loot or consumables in the dungeon, but at least better than it is. Pricing could always be adjusted to the more expensive side for those things as well as usually I end up with way more money than I would ever spend by end game.



Back on topic the romance of diving into a dungeon to bring back loot to sell is appealing to me, but it does indeed get tedious so I haven't had no selling off for most of my games.

[Sideways]

I like no selling; but having it on by default is frequently very confusing to new players (and to returning old players used to having selling on).

[Hounded]

I have fond memories of haggling over the price of everything in the very old days. Followed closely by not-fond memories of being locked out of the store for being "that kind of customer".

Ironically, my interest in carting stuff back to town died when haggling did. The formula of haul-it-back-and-dump-it-for-money became a chore that just didn't offer me any interest as opposed to "how much can I squeeze out of the shop keeper for this?".

With NO-SELL I don't even have that internal conflict. "Should I take it back to get more money which I don't need and can't conceive of spending or just play the #$%^ game?" is gone and any qualms about squelching entire families of gear vanish.

[Sphara]

It's a birth option!
Just play with selling on if you feel like it. This is the kind of subject I could not care less for. Completely worthless poll.

To OP: You most likely were just curious, nothing wrong with that. It's just that I don't think polls like this are needed.

[Sky]

oh no, no. If anything, the birth option should be to turn selling off, not to have to turn it back on.
I understand that the vast majority here likes to have selling off, but it's the majority *here*. Of people who make a forum account. We don't represent the average player, it's never like that, on any game forum.

[fph]

I agree that this community might be biased (even if I am not sure in which direction: there are many old-time players here, and in my experience the reaction to changes in the game has often been negative).

It would be interesting to poll a larger share of the player base, but I have no idea how we could do it. Adding telemetry to Angband would be even greater heresy in my view. A pop-up with the link to a poll in a new version? Stats from Gwarl's server? Any other ideas?

[DavidMedley]

I like no selling; but having it on by default is frequently very confusing to new players (and to returning old players used to having selling on).

I agree with this.

[Pete Mack]

Yeah, Gwarl could do it. The other possible place is the android app, but that would indeed require telemetry, and in any case it isn't quite suitable for new players.

[DavidMedley]

More interesting questions, in my mind:

1) Should no_sell be the default? (sorry not trying to harp on this)

2) Is no_sell fairly balanced?

3) Should there be more or less useful things to buy with money?

#3 is a matter of taste, #2 is a matter of judgement (I think "yes"), and #1 is a matter of priorities.

[Pete Mack]

No_sell leads to somewhat less gold than selling enabled (depending on how aggressive you are about lugging loot.) Later in the game it could be significant advantage not to waste inventory space on junk, but it doesn't actually matter, because no one really needs gold anyway at that point.

[DavidMedley]

With selling on a player should also be disciplined enough to not lug around junk once money has little to no value.

I agree you can get more money with selling but is it worth it? I say it's a close call, which is good.

[whartung]

Selling is tedious and drags the game. Inventory space is so limited, have to drag stuff up to sell simply exacerbates it. At some point, you just don't. Rather than diving and killing monsters, you ?Recall to sell the two item you have room for in your bag.

In the end, it doesn't offer much value to gameplay IMHO, it's simply an annoying mechanic. It doesn't offer much choice "Do I take this back and sell it, or take that back and sell it" isn't super compelling in the long term.

This is also related to the value of the stores in the end. I can say that gold (with no selling) is not a real limitation save the very early game. I won't say I've never seen an item I wanted that I can't afford, I would say that it's rare, and certainly wasn't game breaking. And I'm not in that state for very long.

But, of course, as things move along the value of the store decrease. My primary purchases are food and arrows.