Weapon weights - a video

[sffp]

I picked up an example of what I was thinking about.
I just picked up a Lance of *Slay Troll* (+4,+3) <+2> to strength
I have an 18/86 strength, 18/20 Dex wielding it
I get 1.3 blows a round for ~57 damage against trolls

My Dagger (+6,+6) gives me ~66 against everything (including said trolls I presume)

That just seems silly

[Nick]

Is it possible for that functionality to break - if for example you go up to 4 and then down to below 4?(potion of Brawn swiped from Dex) Because my character is doing 3 a round regularly even with the 3.8

Sorry, I was incorrect. The thing that happens with your 3.8 blows is that you get 3, but instead of using 100 energy that turn, you use (100 / 3.8) * 3, so your next turn comes around a bit quicker. This corresponds to the way extra shots works for missile weapons.

[sffp]

Sorry, I was incorrect. The thing that happens with your 3.8 blows is that you get 3, but instead of using 100 energy that turn, you use (100 / 3.8) * 3, so your next turn comes around a bit quicker. This corresponds to the way extra shots works for missile weapons.

Ah so that's really interesting. I've never understood that mechanism (I've always wondered "where are my extra shots" when I've had one of those bows.
So does that result in double-turns for me? Or - how does that interoperate with the speed system.

[archolewa]

So at the start the dagger is good & everything else you find is weak & often by a fair bit, at least for a warrior. There are exceptions of course if you find an artifact, but mostly weapons that in theory should be reasonable, tend to be terrible. Then there's the issue that every weapon plays & feels the same. They are just damage numbers on a stat stick. I don't find it leads to interesting choices.

I see where you're coming from on this, but personally I don't think the interesting choice has to boil down to what "type" of weapon, but rather "what impact does this weapon have on the rest of my character?" Is an extra blow worth losing chaos resistance? Is chaos resistance worth being slightly encumbered, or having to leave some of my staves at home to stay unencumbered? On the other hand, the heavier weapon also gives me an extra pip of Nether resistance, so now I can swap out Hjolmir finally for the Armor of the Rohirrim...

This is in my opinion where Angband's equipment game gets interesting. I don't care what kind of weapon it is, I care about my resistances, damage, and other intrinsics.

Besides, I've played some DCSS (got two runes before getting bored), and I rarely found the weapon choice to make that much of a difference beyond forcing me to change what I was training. Sure, axes let you hit every enemy... but you're gonna lure them to a corridor one at a time anyway because it's very easy to get overwhelmed and that game doesn't have particularly good panic buttons. Riposte is nice for some extra damage, but again you're still gonna lure them into a corridor. Maces just hit hard. Spears are interesting, because there are a few spells and what-not in DCSS you can use to maximize a spear's reach. But in that case, it's lure into a corridor, and throw down flame cloud, or try to manipulate the game into to putting an orc between you and the troll, so you can skewer the troll while the orc wails ineffectually at you.

So the only impact I really found DCSS' weapons had was on what skills I trained and spells I learned. *How* I fought, or what I fought never really changed. We have the same thing already in Angband: choosing between two different weapons can have very interesting ripple effects across the rest of your character's build out, even if it doesn't impact how you fight once the fight starts. It does impact which enemies are worth fighting though, so I find the game plays differently even if the combat doesn't.

I'm not opposed to weapons having different mechanics (I *do* really enjoy the extra reach granted by spears in DCSS). I'm just skeptical it will actually really change anything, either in combat tactics or weapon choice. Maybe if the weapon effects were absolutely massive (the Spear of Orome lets you turn your melee attack into a beam!), or you had a way of trying to transfer stats between weapons (but ye gods this would have to either be nerfed into uselessness or be broken beyond all compare). Otherwise, I expect the stats on the sticks to remain the dominate consideration, and the extra weapon qualities will just be gravy.

[sffp]

I understand that the weapon type doesn't matter to the game play.
But theirs a value system in stores for things like Slay troll/orc/dragon etc
Levels get feelings based off the presence of the ego weapons. But when a Dagger (+2,+6) does more damage than a Great Maul of *Slay Dragon* (+11, +14) against dragons - that's where you start to question the system. (Note - in college, when I played Angband, I don't recall inspecting weapons to show damage. )

I know which one will be more expensive at the store....

[Nick]

I understand that the weapon type doesn't matter to the game play.
But theirs a value system in stores for things like Slay troll/orc/dragon etc
Levels get feelings based off the presence of the ego weapons. But when a Dagger (+2,+6) does more damage than a Great Maul of *Slay Dragon* (+11, +14) against dragons - that's where you start to question the system. (Note - in college, when I played Angband, I don't recall inspecting weapons to show damage. )

The percentage damage birth option is intended to do more or less what you're looking for. It's pretty broken in 4.2.0, but in the development version (which should become 4.2.1 fairly soon) it's at least close to balanced.