Speed display

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  • spara
    Adept
    • Nov 2014
    • 235

    Speed display

    I'm playing with the option "Show effective speed as multiplier" enabled and the logic just keeps on irritating me. Better than those obscure numbers though. I know this is a kind of linguistic question, but as a mathematically oriented person I just can't get over it .

    Here's the deal:

    @ is at (1.2x) and a monster is at (1.0x). The description states that the monster is "1.2x slower than you". On a mathematical level I don't really understand what n times slower than actually means. In my book that would mean that the monster's speed is negative. I mean 1.2 times @ speed would be 1.44 and less than would mean -0.24 speed. The real difference in speed is about 17%, so I assume that 1.2 multiplier is 1.17 rounded.

    Another example:

    @ is at (1.2x) and a monster is at (2.0x). The description states that the monster is "1.7x faster than you". That makes a bit more sense, since I assume it means 1.7*1.2 which is about 2. I still find it wrong, since 1.7x faster in my world means 2.7 times the original.

    I'm assuming these are in the vain of saying that 6 is 2 times greater than 3 instead of saying 6 is 2 times 3. Or even saying that 3 is two times lesser than 6 instead of saying 3 is half of 6.

    I would love to see the multiplier differences as percentages rather than current phrases. The examples would above would then be "17% slower than you" and "67% faster than you".

    Thank you for reading. Had to get that off my chest.
  • Pete Mack
    Prophet
    • Apr 2007
    • 6697

    #2
    1.2 รท 1.0 = 1.2, that is you get one extra turn every 5 monster turns. What you are talking about is extra turns.

    Comment

    • wobbly
      Prophet
      • May 2012
      • 2576

      #3
      I agree that it's badly worded.

      "20% faster then you" means 1.2x your speed.
      "1.7x faster then you" is technically meaningless & easy to mistake for 2.7x.
      "Twice as fast" makes sense. "Twice as faster" is nonsense.

      Comment

      • spara
        Adept
        • Nov 2014
        • 235

        #4
        Originally posted by Pete Mack
        1.2 รท 1.0 = 1.2, that is you get one extra turn every 5 monster turns. What you are talking about is extra turns.
        I can compare the numbers and I understand the mechanic, I'm just complaining about phrasing "1.2x slower than you". @ is 1.2 times as fast as the monster. Or if we use the all too common phrase which should be banned from all languages, @ is 1.2 times faster than the monster. Wording monster is 1.2 times slower is just wrong.

        If someone has 100 gold coins and I have 1.2 times less coins, how many coins do I have?

        Comment

        • spara
          Adept
          • Nov 2014
          • 235

          #5
          Tbh, there needs to be no speed comparison in the description when multiplier is shown. Just the multiplier.

          Comment

          • Pete Mack
            Prophet
            • Apr 2007
            • 6697

            #6
            Got it. "The monster is 0.83 times as fast as you" or "you are 1.2 times faster than the monster" may be better.

            Comment

            • DavidMedley
              Knight
              • Oct 2019
              • 995

              #7
              Which is 1.20x your speed. Which is 0.67x your speed. Any good?
              Please like my indie game company on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/RatherFunGames

              Comment

              • archolewa
                Swordsman
                • Feb 2019
                • 399

                #8
                It's a little bit more verbose, but since what players really care about is "how often am I getting double-moved", you could say something like:

                "The monster has a speed of 2.0x (the monster will double-move you every move)" or "The monster has speed 1.2x (the monster will double-move you every 5 moves)."

                Comment

                • spara
                  Adept
                  • Nov 2014
                  • 235

                  #9
                  Originally posted by archolewa
                  It's a little bit more verbose, but since what players really care about is "how often am I getting double-moved", you could say something like:

                  "The monster has a speed of 2.0x (the monster will double-move you every move)" or "The monster has speed 1.2x (the monster will double-move you every 5 moves)."
                  It's a bit more complicated since @'s multiplier affects the ratio, but that does not really affect the discussion here.

                  My suggestion is to remove comparison part altogether and just leave the speed multiplier with respect to normal speed. Let the player do the math.

                  Comment

                  • Nick
                    Vanilla maintainer
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 9351

                    #10
                    Originally posted by DavidMedley
                    Which is 1.20x your speed. Which is 0.67x your speed. Any good?
                    This looks good to me.
                    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                    Comment

                    • spara
                      Adept
                      • Nov 2014
                      • 235

                      #11
                      Originally posted by DavidMedley
                      Which is 1.20x your speed. Which is 0.67x your speed. Any good?
                      Originally posted by Nick
                      This looks good to me.
                      Yup. That makes the speed comparison correct and consistent.

                      Comment

                      • DavidMedley
                        Knight
                        • Oct 2019
                        • 995

                        #12
                        Something that ties in closely with this is the estimation of a monster's damage dealing ability. Awesome feature, BTW. But I think it doesn't include speed. This can be very misleading when dealing with a Blood Falcon or the like. Not sure what the best solution is, especially in light of @'s with partial blows or >1.0 shots often using less than 1 full turn. Perhaps just a slight change in wording to "averaging X damage on each of its turns."
                        Please like my indie game company on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/RatherFunGames

                        Comment

                        • Nick
                          Vanilla maintainer
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 9351

                          #13
                          Originally posted by DavidMedley
                          Something that ties in closely with this is the estimation of a monster's damage dealing ability. Awesome feature, BTW. But I think it doesn't include speed. This can be very misleading when dealing with a Blood Falcon or the like. Not sure what the best solution is, especially in light of @'s with partial blows or >1.0 shots often using less than 1 full turn. Perhaps just a slight change in wording to "averaging X damage on each of its turns."
                          Good idea, all this done in development now.
                          One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                          In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                          Comment

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