Blackguards: 4.2.0 to 4.2.1

[DavidMedley]

Wow, great review archolewa. A lot in there that I might address individually in the future, but I agree with basically everything and didn't notice anything I strongly disagreed with.

Quake was added last and isn't meant to be amazing, but it's position in the last book implies greatness. I think it's pretty useful when you get into trouble with too many monsters having LoS on you. I think it's thematic enough and can be used kinda like Taunt to keep monsters from attacking you from range. Reducing its cost, effect, and required level is certainly a possibility for the future.

Speaking of Taunt, any time a monster might use an ability, Taunt cuts those chances in half. Under consideration is to report the instances when a monster would have used an ability but didn't. No one seems to trust that it actually works!

[DavidMedley]

might be a good idea to include the default starting stats in the datafile for classes
Thoughts?

A good algo would take into account breakpoints for each stat... or at least that's how I approach the birth screen. But that's a PITA and fragile. So setting the points to assign to each stat on a class by class basis sounds like a simple but resilient choice. This would communicate to the player which stats are important and which are not.

Blackguard needs everything except Wis, so might be something like this:
STR 6
INT 5
WIS 1
DEX 4
CON 4

But it's very debatable... I'll put 8 in STR or DEX if that gets me more blows. I never put 12 points in any stat. Anyway, the above communicates "hey, don't sleep on INT or you might regret it" but they're always free to reduce INT, and often they'd be right to do so.

[mrfy]

Speaking of Taunt, any time a monster might use an ability, Taunt cuts those chances in half. Under consideration is to report the instances when a monster would have used an ability but didn't. No one seems to trust that it actually works!

Yes, in my game it didn't seem like it did much. Observer bias.

[archolewa]

I think it's pretty useful when you get into trouble with too many monsters having LoS on you.

I don't disagree. I just avoid those situations, or use a scroll/staff of *Destruct* if I end up in them, hence why I didn't get much use out of it. It would I think be much more useful if it came online before *Destruct* was plentiful. As is, by the time you get it, you have the tools you need to avoid these situations, and you've probably got Destruct available unless the RNG's been really stingy.

I feel like it would be most useful if it came online in the early 30's.

Speaking of Taunt, any time a monster might use an ability, Taunt cuts those chances in half. Under consideration is to report the instances when a monster would have used an ability but didn't. No one seems to trust that it actually works!

I absolutely trust that it works. Killed the Skeleton Lord without him ever doing anything but attacking me (and seeing as how he was stunned, it was pretty pathetic). Similarly, Gothmog and Morgoth hardly ever summoned, and Morgoth only used Mana Storm a handful of times.

Though I didn't expect to cut it in half. That plus Maim Foe is a *huge* reduction in enemy damage capabilities.

[Dooks]

Similarly, Gothmog and Morgoth hardly ever summoned, and Morgoth only used Mana Storm a handful of times..

Just read this part of the bg thread. I think I will be using Taunt more often! I have been having problems with 9-headed hydras and Hounds of Saurons multiplying. I'll try this out and see how things go.

[archolewa]

I have been having problems with 9-headed hydras and Hounds of Saurons multiplying. I'll try this out and see how things go.

I always TO'd or otherwise avoided those two,even with Taunting. Not worth the risk, in my opinion.

Honestly, the Blackguard doesn't really change the calculus of which monsters are worth fighting and which aren't. The only monsters that I found worth fighting as a Blackguard that weren't worth fighting with other characters, was Greater Titans since they don't resist poison.

Well, and I did kill more uniques than I usually do. Normally I skip Ancalagon the Black, but this time I killed him (and would have died if I hadn't gotten my Con up so high, so probably still not worth fighting).

[DavidMedley]

I'm still seeking my first win with a BG. My latest attempt was a Half-Troll. Pretty resilient, tho the low INT obviously presents some issues. Birth buy was 6/6/0/4/3 to hit important levels plus 1 point I can't recall where.

What I wanted to post about was the unique list of detectable monsters. It really makes a big difference, I think, and I want to look at the list of non-detectables a bit more closely in the future. In this Troll run I was in DL 40s and CL 31. I was using Seek Battle a ton, as you might expect, and found myself face-to-face with Huan!!! (native depth 90, SB will not detect) Bit of a tense moment there that I luckily survived. For the record, I later died at DL 57 and CL 33 due to reckless resistance gaps.

Short of ESP, is anyone using additional detection beyond Seek Battle, or are you just doing what I am and hoping to avoid any major mishaps with monsters left undetected?

I'm really glad Nick implemented this change (I had Seek Battle as a clone of Detect Life b/c I didn't know how to program Detect Fear). So much better thematic fit and really interesting imo to have a detectable list that is different from other classes.

[archolewa]

I agree that Detect Fear is an incredibly good detection spell. Probably the best detection spell available to non-mage-bookers (though I haven't played either Druid or Ranger, so I don't know how it compares to Detect Life, I expect Detect Life to be the inverse of Detect Evil though, great early but not so great later). However, I did still use Rods of Detection to find nasties like Quthylugs (I always avoid Quthylugs, way to easy for things to go sideways fighting them), vortices, and the like.

Man, I hate vortices. Almost died a couple of times when I wasn't paying close enough attention and got chaos breathed on by that stationary vortex unique.

Edit: I honestly found High Elf to be the best Blackguard (though perhaps that's not a surprise, since High Elf is effectively "easy" mode for most classes). The high stealth helped keep my stealth from being *too* terrible, the high devices gave me a (often) better ranged option than bows, which Blackguards kind of suck at, and of course High Elves get stat bonuses to all the stats Blackguards care about.

Dunadan would probably be really good too, but I always miss intrinsic See Invisible (or even Infravision!) when I play them.

[mrfy]

Once I find rods of Detection, I always carry and use them.