UI Proposal: target in monster mode by default

[fph]

When you start targeting (with a launcher or with magic missile, for instance), the default mode is "direction": pressing a direction immediately fires in the given direction, whether there is a monster there or not. You have to press * to switch to monster targeting mode (select a nearby monster with the arrow keys, then confirm with t to fire), and p to switch to tile targeting mode (select an individual tile with the arrow keys, then confirm with t to fire).

My proposal is that the first mode you access is monster targeting mode, not direction. It seems to me that this would save keypresses on average, since in most cases shooting at a monster (the nearest one or the previous target) is what you want to do. I know that there are some cases when you want to shoot in a corridor even if you don't see what's there, but I think that they are less frequent (and anyway the targeting mode could default to direction mode as a fallback if there are no targetable monsters).

Currently, firing a spell at the nearest monster with a keyboard is quite tedious (m1a*t, and on a vanilla English keyboard * requires pressing shift). If it was changed to m1a<space>, for instance, I think it would be better). The <tab> default macro mitigates this problem for the case of launchers, but for spells it's still there.

[Nick]

I think this is sensible. Any objections?

[Werbaer]

My proposal is that the first mode you access is monster targeting mode, not direction. It seems to me that this would save keypresses on average, since in most cases shooting at a monster (the nearest one or the previous target) is what you want to do.

At least in 4.0.4 with rogue-like keymap. this is the current behaviour.

Currently, firing a spell at the nearest monster with a keyboard is quite tedious (m1a*t, and on a vanilla English keyboard * requires pressing shift). If it was changed to m1a<space>, for instance, I think it would be better).

1. You know of ' (target nearest monster)?

2. using <space> for anything but clearing messages is a very bad idea.

3. use keymaps. When i play mages, F5 is "m1a" (magic missile on last target), Shift-F5 is "'m1a" (magic missile on nearest target). F6/F7/F8 are the same for frost bolt, fire bolt, acid bolt.

[Gwarl]

I think this is sensible. Any objections?

It would make targetted walking slightly more fiddly to implement.

(in cpb ; acts like a targetting command, so while ;4 etc are still the underlying keypress sequences for walking, ;*t walks toward nearest target, vastly improvimg QoL for bump attackers when keymapped)

not a serious objection.

[fph]

At least in 4.0.4 with rogue-like keymap. this is the current behaviour.

It's not the default for master (post-4.1.3) and rogue-like keymap, for sure.

1. You know of ' (target nearest monster)?

I didn't; that's handy (m1a' rather than m1a*t), but it doesn't solve the problem anyway. You still need to switch to monster target mode manually when you want to select a target. And it's still harder to reach than <space>.

2. using <space> for anything but clearing messages is a very bad idea.

Makes sense; but in this case I can't come up with an example where it would conflict. If you just pressed m1a to cast a spell you have no messages to clear. Do you have a practical example where it would matter?

3. use keymaps. When i play mages, F5 is "m1a" (magic missile on last target), Shift-F5 is "'m1a" (magic missile on nearest target). F6/F7/F8 are the same for frost bolt, fire bolt, acid bolt.

I have omitted keymaps from my feature request for simplicity, but it seems to me that my suggestion decreases the average number of keypresses in all use cases, assuming keymaps are used in the same way before and after the change.

[Diego Gonzalez]

Another idea (non prioritary, from Diablo II). When you are browsing a book, give the option to set one of the F1-F12 keys to automatically cast that spell, adding the target nearest monster modifier if it is a bolt/beam/ball spell.

I find the keymap setup a little tediuos.

[Chud]

No objection, though it wouldn't change too much for me; I do almost all of that with keymaps anyway
(" m1a' " etc.) unless I need to manually target a ball into the middle of a pack or something.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

No objection, though it wouldn't change too much for me; I do almost all of that with keymaps anyway
(" m1a' " etc.) unless I need to manually target a ball into the middle of a pack or something.

I prefer the way it is, but that's only because I feel I've mastered targeting (thank Rocketband for that). As for the keymap, for targeted type spells, I use for example "m1a5", which sends a magic missile at a targeted monster, and if I haven't yet selected a target it will ask me. I use "n" for repeat last action if I then want to continue hitting that same target, or use "h" to target nearest monster. However, I like the ability and option currently provided to very selectively determine my targets.

I also agree that using <space> bar for anything but clearing messages is a bad idea.

[Pete Mack]

What inwe said. m1a5 is the right way to do targetting keymaps. One keystroke if you have a target, 2 or 3 if you don't

[Sky]

Any objections?

yes - i do not understand the question.

what's wrong with ' ? (i.e. target nearest?)

dont you 99% of the time want to target nearest? aren't the times where you do NOT want to target nearest so few and far between that you can be reasonably be expected to go to manual aiming ?

[Chud]

yes - i do not understand the question.

what's wrong with ' ? (i.e. target nearest?)

dont you 99% of the time want to target nearest? aren't the times where you do NOT want to target nearest so few and far between that you can be reasonably be expected to go to manual aiming ?

There are actually a lot of times I want to target something other than nearest, or fire when I don't have a visible target at all. Often it's more important to take out the death knight across the room before worrying about the hairy mold that's closer. I also recently killed a ring-wraith I wouldn't otherwise have been ready for because was blocked from moving into my line of sight (who knew uniques won't walk on lava?), but I could spam the wall next to him with orb of draining until the splash damage eventually killed him. Just for example.

[fph]

yes - i do not understand the question.

what's wrong with ' ? (i.e. target nearest?)

dont you 99% of the time want to target nearest? aren't the times where you do NOT want to target nearest so few and far between that you can be reasonably be expected to go to manual aiming ?

TL;DR: Which of these actions do you do more often: target a specific monster, or aim in a cardinal direction? Then why should the first second be the default and the first one be hidden behind a keypress?

[Pete Mack]

fph:
Because more common still ks to shoot at current target, whether or not it is nearer. You can do it by using 5 as the direction, which is 1 keystroke.

[Derakon]

The topic of discussion here is how the '*' command should behave, not any of the other commands.

[Pete Mack]

The * command already chooses the closest monster, then cycles through others. If you want to pick a direction, you need to force it. So I am really confused now.