Sil-like lighting in Angband?

[Voovus]

A few comments:

1. In principle, I like the idea of darkness generating monsters.

2. I'm a bit concerned that it will make detection and ESP even more important. I use them all the time anyway, but I do feel that they take away some of the flavour of the game, and would rather see detection/ESP become less important. Part of the charm of the early game is that you are actually exploring the dungeon and get a surprise from time to time - this disappears later in the game with access to detection/ESP/Mapping (...except for loot and the occasional Drolem).

3. I'd also like to try increasing the light radius from lights. To make high values worthwhile, maybe an exponential curve? Thus: torch = 1 square, lantern = 2 squares, phial = 4 squares, phial+gondolin = 8 squares, phial+gondolin+whateverelsegiveslightIforget = 16 squares.

[Nick]

2. I'm a bit concerned that it will make detection and ESP even more important. I use them all the time anyway, but I do feel that they take away some of the flavour of the game, and would rather see detection/ESP become less important. Part of the charm of the early game is that you are actually exploring the dungeon and get a surprise from time to time - this disappears later in the game with access to detection/ESP/Mapping (...except for loot and the occasional Drolem).

So what I'm hearing is that ESP and detection need to be nerfed

In all seriousness, I think there will only be a small number of darkness-creating monsters, and they won't really affect the calculations of which properties are important very much.

[Voovus]

So what I'm hearing is that ESP and detection need to be nerfed

Eeeek! Nononononononononono.
You throw Potion of Intelligence at Nick the Vanilla Maintainer.
Nice, clean & crisp effects are great, like those of ESP and detection. The issue is that they are pretty much essential and irreplaceable for survival. (...Probably something to do with abundance of instadeath situations at high depths, which one needs to detect before stumbling into...)

[Derakon]

Actually, it could be interesting to experiment with the opposite change. Currently all 1-turn guaranteed escapes are based on reading (if I am not mistaken), so taking away the possibility to read in some very isolated contexts would be a new challenge.

You can already lose the ability to read, by being blinded, confused, or hallucinatory (I think hallucinating blocks reading, I admit it's been a long time since I tried).

My main concern with having nearby monsters be able to block you from reading is, how do you get away from them if you can't read and aren't faster than them? Literally the only options I can think of are Staff of Teleport, Rod of Recall, or an activatable artifact that has a movement power. Not to mention that a mage or priest in such a situation has just been locked out of most of their class powers.

I don't think these problems are unsolvable, but I do think we need to make the decision of whether to block reading in a conscious way, aware of the consequences.

[wobbly]

I'll support bigger light sources if it means an end to rods of light/illumination being permanent light. Once you have a stack of light rods it's to your advantage to neurotically light every corridor around you to an extent that is unfun. To me it's less about wanting more light & more about finding a way to get rid of lighting up the whole dungeon without making exploration more painful/tedious.

[tangar]

I like 'shadow' monsters idea, sounds wicked!

Also maybe add some mobs which influence light and interact with player:

- monsters which could steal light from you and at the same time they appear to have more light radius with every successful attempt & vice versa - who steal it and also become darker (have bigger 'shadow' around them)
- monsters who become blinded from your light if you come in 'melee' range (some long-range attacking mobs, like snaga archers).. the more bright light source you have - the more chance to blind an enemy
- powerful monsters which got shadow so strong that it dim players light when come in melee (cutting players light radius).

[MattB]

You can already lose the ability to read, by being blinded, confused, or hallucinatory (I think hallucinating blocks reading, I admit it's been a long time since I tried).

And don't forget the rather brilliant mechanic of 'amnesia'. Love that status effect! You have literally forgotten how to read!

[MattB]

I love the idea Nick. And I thought Grotug's example was spot on.
And +1 to the idea that your own square is always lit if you have a light source - it makes sense to me.
The next step is to allow your own darkness to affect other monsters. Staff of darkness in a room full of mages, anyone?