On a run playing a paladin

[Philip]

Accuracy on ranged weapons is pretty handy on a Paladin, since they're usually quite terrible with them.

Keep the best crossbow you find around, in case you find good bolts. Until then, use whatever launcher you have the best ammo for.

[Sphara]

Level 43 is the depth these unique elemental lords (Ariel, Vargo, Waldern and Quaker) start to appear. I'm gonna say this in advance since you obviously do not mind hints being spoilery: They are NOT worth fighting. All of them have very high HP for this level and nasty item-destructing attacks and they NEVER DROP ANYTHING. They just pummel you from afar and destroy items on the floor just by walking over them.

Of these, Waldern and Ariel are particularly deadly. Waldern having water bolts and whirlpools and Ariel having confusing melee attacks.

[Petoften]

(Mushrooms of emergency are vanishingly rare.)

This is the first game I've seen them.

So I guess having four, and seeing another in the shop I didn't buy for 60 gold, that was not a good idea not to buy it, oops.

They have been damn useful. Any opinion on the bow pick?

[Pete Mack]

Bottom line: with a very few possible exceptions (monsters with DROP_GREAT) you should avoid difficult battles:
1. You will use too many supplies. CCW, !Heal, and !Speed are limited in number. (Mushrooms of emergency are vanishingly rare.)
2. You will die horribly.
And by avoid I mean really avoid, as in: don't go anywhere near the monster; don't even wake it up if you can. Otherwise teleport it away from a knight's move in a corridor.

Finally: once you have enough speed, 400+ dakage per turn, and 5-10% fail on the healing spell, you'll be able to kill just about every monster in the game without much effort. Focus on reaching that point: a high level paladin is essentially a tank.

[Petoften]

Between a bow x3 (+11, +15) and a crossbow x4 (+24, +9)...

The first number is accuracy? What is the x3 x4?

I don't have similar arrows and bolts to compare their damage.

Maybe the crossbow isn't worth keeping as nice as the accuracy is?

[Petoften]

EDIT: Fighting Adunaphel was possibly not a bad idea. Passwall monsters are tougher to avoid than most, and this gets rid of Adunaphel forever.

Are you fighting monsters by chugging CCW when standing next to them? CCW is soon not going to be able to consistently outheal monster damage, as you can see. You need to think about your positioning more, and you need to phase away to heal more often.

Good to know it was a good idea to get rid of Adunaphel.

Yes, sometimes I am chugging CCW next to them - but am already doing things like trying to position. I tried to move to where only Adunaphel or the dragon could hit - and Adunaphel just came right through the wall keeping both of them on me, and just moving to try to do that can give them free attacks. That's when I ate the mushroom.

And I agree, I both am seeing the limits of the heal potions - they're already barely keeping up with the damage - and how few I have of them.

[Petoften]

You are not supposed to be able to kill Medusa with your gear and clvl, though if you really wanted to, you'd need to load up on buffs, healing, and also create an anti-summoning corridor. That might be enough. Maybe.

Ya, I know nothing of this game's uniques - Medusa is just another like any other unique as far as I know.

I assume I have to kill some uniques to gear up?

No idea she is 'the first really dangerous' unique or why the game throws her before people can have a chance - the info is helpful.

[Petoften]

About going down to 'only 2 copies of spellbooks' - two of my three books already lost the spare and are on the last copy. Back to town soon.

[Philip]

I think Derakon's point was that many of your current dilemmas are of a sort that you will have to deal with very frequently as you delve deeper, and you need to learn to make these judgements with the information you've gained already.

You are extremely lucky there was an Ancient Dragon there preventing you from getting yourself killed.
You are not supposed to be able to kill Medusa with your gear and clvl, though if you really wanted to, you'd need to load up on buffs, healing, and also create an anti-summoning corridor. That might be enough. Maybe.

You didn't miss any loot from Medusa. Yes, technically, her inventory was generated at the start of the level, but since you have no way of knowing what it was, to you it was effectively not generated.

You need to get over this apparent conviction you have that you should be trying to kill things, and get all the loot. There are only two monsters you need to kill. Sauron, and Morgoth. Every other monster should be fought either because you cannot avoid it, or because you want to fight the monster.
If you cannot reliably avoid fights, then you're going to die at some point to a monster you can't beat. Either that or you spend forever very shallow and get bored and die to inattention. If you want to fight a monster, it should be because you can defeat it easily.
You should not be fighting Master Liches, or multiple dragons at once, or Medusas, or staying in fights when you're below half health.

EDIT: Fighting Adunaphel was possibly not a bad idea. Passwall monsters are tougher to avoid than most, and this gets rid of Adunaphel forever.

Are you fighting monsters by chugging CCW when standing next to them? CCW is soon not going to be able to consistently outheal monster damage, as you can see. You need to think about your positioning more, and you need to phase away to heal more often.

[Petoften]

Level 43, second mob was another unique, Adunaphel the Quiet.

Also quite hard - was barely winning with a couple CCW used when he summoned a mature dragon to help.

I was getting quite low - 60 HP while he was throwing acid - but used my last mushroom of emergency and killed him and the dragon.

Now I have hallucinations and am killing more stuff that came but got him.

Not looking like great loot - but maybe it is, a crossbow of accuracy (+24, 9), have to see how that compares to my bow when the monsters are cleared.

[Derakon]

If that's the only comment in response to asking for opinions, you can post to other threads and not this one.

Take it down a notch there, chief. I'm trying to encourage you to step outside your comfort zone, that's all.

[Petoften]

Wonder what loot I miss from Medusa? Maybe nothing good anyway. Level 43 coming up...

[Petoften]

Exactly. If you rely on a 95% escape and use it only when you're going to die next turn, you will die sooner or later.

Also going without detection is pretty dangerous. That's why you need to teleport that often, because monsters are probably aware of you before you are aware of them. The medusa could have summoned 2-3 11 headed hydras from the distance before you realize them who burn your staffs/books/scrolls and you're stuck with no escape (if not already dead). At that depth the nasty monsters are much faster than you if you did not upgrade your gear since your last update on the ladder so you can even count on being double moved a lot.

Ya, the sound of her summoning 11 headed hydras (never seen one but the 9 headed are terrible) and destroying my books/gear sounds nasty.

I went down to two copies of spellbooks leaving only one copy extra - maybe that's dangerous.

If my rod of recall gets destroyed, that's gonna be a problem, no way to recall unless I find a scroll.

[Petoften]

OK, I'm on the stairs ready to leave the level.

Too bad there was an ancient dragon also so it was not a good idea to even make any try to kill her.

I wonder how almost anyone would ever kill her around my level (31) since I have nice gear etc.

What is the 'something makes a soft 'pop'' message about?

[Adam]

One of these times my teleport staff isn't gonna work.

Exactly. If you rely on a 95% escape and use it only when you're going to die next turn, you will die sooner or later.

Also going without detection is pretty dangerous. That's why you need to teleport that often, because monsters are probably aware of you before you are aware of them. The medusa could have summoned 2-3 11 headed hydras from the distance before you realize them who burn your staffs/books/scrolls and you're stuck with no escape (if not already dead). At that depth the nasty monsters are much faster than you if you did not upgrade your gear since your last update on the ladder so you can even count on being double moved a lot.