new weird sell prices

[Sky]

im playing 4.1.0, and i've just seen something weird, second time around.

i found a robe, which was obvious to me was a Robe Of Resistance (resist fire, cold, lightning, acid). I went to the armorer, and at this time i only know rCold. He offers me 22.000 gold for it.

I obviously sell it, and then i get the message "you have learned rLightnng, rFire, rAcid" and "you fiend!", as if i sold him something cursed.

Now, the same robe is on sale for 6000 gold.

I have seen this before with a sword {??} and the swordsmith was offering me 10.000 (cap for the store) and i assume it was of gondolin, but once id, it only sold for 3000.

Also, stores will sometimes not buy {??} even though they are not cursed. And other times they will, but for 2 gold.

[Sky]

So? Bug, or design?

[Nick]

Doesn't sound right, I'll have to investigate further.

[Sky]

also, some curses make things more expensive, such as "resist fire but hurt by cold".

[PowerWyrm]

also, some curses make things more expensive, such as "resist fire but hurt by cold".

That's just because "resist fire" is more valuable than "vulnerable to cold". Would be identical if the curse was "gives telepathy, but also aggravates".

[Sky]

Thats true, but it defeats the purpose of the curse, which is to make the item LESS valuable.

Sell_enabled player problems, i guess.

[kandrc]

Thats true, but it defeats the purpose of the curse, which is to make the item LESS valuable.

Says who? i think the purpose of the curse is to encourage interesting gameplay decisions.

Old behavior was shopkeepers would not buy or sell cursed items, but that never implied that Calris and the Massive Iron Crown were valueless.

[Sky]

Im not saying it shouldnt be usable, just that it shouldnt be *more* desirable than a non-cursed item.

[Derakon]

Im not saying it shouldnt be usable, just that it shouldnt be *more* desirable than a non-cursed item.

Think of curses like "may you live in interesting times", not "may your tongue fall out".

[Sky]

But then they are not curses, but tradeoffs; this concept is used already in many RPG, and we already have: +4 speed but no attack, -1 speed but resist paralysis, resist / hurt elements, -damage but +stealth, +2 speed but teleportation, etc.

Maybe there could be a set of effects, divided in positive and negative, and have OOD gear show up with "positive random effect A, but negative random effect B".

What i don't think should happen is that a sell_on player finds a dagger and thinks "YES, A CURSED DAGGER!" because, well, that's not what curses are meant to be.

I mean .. come on, do you remember curses from the earlier versions? How many times i wielded a weapon Of Morgul and basically had to suicide the character.

[Derakon]

I mean .. come on, do you remember curses from the earlier versions? How many times i wielded a weapon Of Morgul and basically had to suicide the character.

Yes, and you're surely not advocating a return to those days!

The #1 way the game should kill the player is through hubris: tempting them into doing something they really should know better than to try to do. This I firmly believe. Giving the player power at a price is an excellent way to do this.

That said, it sounds like you're mostly objecting to the term "curse" here. I'm having trouble coming up with a term that's thematic, a good match for the mechanics, and implies that the effect can be removed through some magical means (as Remove Curse does now). But if you come up with one, by all means make a suggestion.

[luneya]

Sure, not all of the curses are really curses--though those 1 resist/1 vulnerability cases are genuinely detrimental once you get past the early game, as every character typically has full rbase from armor/shield of resistance/elvenkind or an artifact equivalent. But that's not really a game-breaking problem. Sell prices are genuinely broken, and will need to be fixed in some eventual release. The workaround is to play the game as it's meant to be played these days, with the no-sell option turned on.

[Sky]

Two things. Yes, i do object to the term curses, but also because curses can be removed. Ring of Teleportation, for example, should not be {cursed} . And lets not confuse the stuck on curse of epic objects of evil like the one ring and the crown of silmarils with a minor curse.

Regarding sell_on, sell_off, it's a difficulty setting not unlike Permanence, without which the game is substantially easier. Tu quoque, Brute.

[Pete Mack]

Sky-- Teleportation IS a curse--it's a permanent curse, just like the sticky-wield on the One Ring.