Revamping the monster list

[Nick]

And, Nick, how about the possibility of "neutral" monsters, a la FA?

Probably not at this point, although it's something to think about. In FA they only appeared outside dungeons (IIRC), were based on player races, and were designed to appear closer to that race's home town; there isn't quite the same rationale for having them in V.

I'd be sorry to lose some of the other stuff from upstream on this thread, like frogs jumping...

Yes, I'll certainly look back at this thread.

[AmyBSOD]

Hmm, I'm wondering if this idea came up ever before, but: how about having monsters with native depths of 100 or higher (in addition to the existing monsters, of course)? They would serve to make deep vaults more interesting, especially when comparing them to slightly more shallow ones. E.g. a "monster up to 40 levels out of depth" tile on a DL80 vault could spawn a monster from a depth of up to 120; currently, those tiles will pick monsters from the exact same lists once the player reaches DL60, since no monsters with depths >= 100 exist. And it would also make the postgame more interesting when the player decides to venture down all the way to DL127.

[fizzix]

Hmm, I'm wondering if this idea came up ever before, but: how about having monsters with native depths of 100 or higher (in addition to the existing monsters, of course)? They would serve to make deep vaults more interesting, especially when comparing them to slightly more shallow ones. E.g. a "monster up to 40 levels out of depth" tile on a DL80 vault could spawn a monster from a depth of up to 120; currently, those tiles will pick monsters from the exact same lists once the player reaches DL60, since no monsters with depths >= 100 exist. And it would also make the postgame more interesting when the player decides to venture down all the way to DL127.

Some variants have done this. One of the problems is that the monster we have at about 70-80 level are pretty much at the maximum stat-wise that we should expect from non-unique monsters. You could make some unique-statted monsters that are more deep but in reality, those monsters aren't any more dangerous than the non-unique monsters. They just tend to have more HP and require more resources to kill. The difference between Ancalagon and a Great Wyrm of Many Colors is that Ancalagon has more HP, that's pretty much it. Lungorthin isn't that much more dangerous than a greater balrog.

[Derakon]

Solution: add a Tarrasqueling to DL127. 500 HP, +20 speed, fire/cold/disenchantment breath, breeds explosively.

[Pete Mack]

@Derakon--
That'd do it, for every player except a mage with Kelek.
I still want to see Azriel brought back (possibly as Mandos.) Beruthiel, as a friend of the cat lord, would be good too.

Melkior Lord of the Underworld
SPELLS: BR_NETH
SPELL_FREQ: 2

[Nick]

Lungorthin isn't that much more dangerous than a greater balrog.

... yet ...

[PowerWyrm]

Hmm, I'm wondering if this idea came up ever before, but: how about having monsters with native depths of 100 or higher (in addition to the existing monsters, of course)? They would serve to make deep vaults more interesting, especially when comparing them to slightly more shallow ones. E.g. a "monster up to 40 levels out of depth" tile on a DL80 vault could spawn a monster from a depth of up to 120; currently, those tiles will pick monsters from the exact same lists once the player reaches DL60, since no monsters with depths >= 100 exist. And it would also make the postgame more interesting when the player decides to venture down all the way to DL127.

I did that for PWMAngband, as well as redesigning the Ds to have tougher ones below dlvl80.

[PowerWyrm]

Lungorthin isn't that much more dangerous than a greater balrog.

Stuff like Gothmog in PosChengband has been made a nightmare to kill -- not only he has KILL_WALL, but he leaves a trail of 3x3 lava squares when he moves...

[wobbly]

I really think something in the game needs to be TO resistant. I found it a bit of a snooze-fest once I had telepathy+reliable TO. I'm going to suggest the colossus & silent watchers.

[Pete Mack]

DL 120 is presumably a Great Wyrm of Power
There's also that horrendous Sky Dragon in FA.