game concept about arti rarity

[Sky]

here is my concept;

1) the artifacts are set in a sequential list.

this list can (and should) vary based on what class you play, but it might work even without this.

2) the only artifacts you can find are a small number at the beginning of the list.

3) if the DL generates an artifact, it must be from that number.

4) finding that artifact opens a new range of numbers in the list.



this means that, even if you start at DL 98, the first artifact you will find is the Phial of Galadriel. There is still a luck factor which means your list might fully open quicker than another player's, but statistically, they would be similar.

The idea is to stop the game from dropping something so good, that it makes every drop afterwards irrelevant. For example, one of my very first artis was The Great Hammer Of Aule; at this point, i don't even bother picking up daggers, scimitars, katanas .. all i'm looking for are MoD's, Tridents, or Ringil.I have the Haradrim Shield so i'm also not looking at anything other than Thorin.

I would instead want a game where the less powerful artifacts drop first, and the better ones drop later. (this is why there might need to be a separate set of lists, depending on class)
Who has even won the game with, idk, Osondir? Til-i-Arc? Or the many swords "of slay animal". These are basically squelch artifacts, that don't excel in anything and are only useful as a stopgap.

I'm not saying it should be "Cambeleg dropped, the next must be Cammithrim", but "Cambeleg dropped, i should be in batch 4 of the list, this means that now i *could* find Cammithrim, Haradrim, Anguirel", and it's possible that some artis don't show up at all.
By the endgame the list should be fully opened, but some artis have not dropped because of pure chance.

it would also be possible to ... add ego items to the list. the difference being, the egos do not get marked "do not drop again" to further add to the linearity of the progression. DL at which they are dropped would still influence their stat value, and power level of mob killed would influence the roll to determine what item is dropped from the list.

/discuss

[Grotug]

I understand your reasoning and somewhat similar ideas have crossed my mind before. I think this is pretty much a terrible idea:

There are a lot of things @ needs, not just a weapon. If getting Aulë early means you don't have to search for a weapon the rest of the game, is it such a big deal? The idea behind how the artifacts are generated now is that on a rare occasion you will get something super powerful early, but this won't happen very often. This keeps things fresh; you never really know what artifact you will stumble upon next. Even as it is, it can be predictable which types of artifact you will get based on your depth. Your idea makes it *much* more predictable. This will be *really* boring to play, knowing more or less which artifacts are coming up next. The beauty of Angband is you don't know what artifact you will get next. The drawback you speak of (other weapon artifacts being irrelevant) is a *much* smaller drawback than the drawback of having everything be predictable with all sense of discovery removed from the game.

I can tell you with a pretty high level of confidence others will agree with me on this one.

The only thing I would like to see 'changed' about the artifacts is to have more added, since I'm pretty much familiar with most of the common ones now.

[spara]

The possibility of getting basically anything at any point is one of Angbands strengths, not weaknesses.

Tweaking the probabilities would be a better option.

[Sky]

well, i find it frustrating when i spend the whole evening clearing a greater vault, and my reward is "The Dagger Narthanc". Instead, it would push me more to know that "right now i'm finding The Ring Of Barahir, but if i keep going i'll find Deathwrecker".

bad drops can still happen, it's just the OOD which can't. I just finished clearing one, and i got Pendant of Ingwe (i'm capped in stats and have been using Evenstar since DL43), Careth Asdrag (didn't even bother to ID it) and Avavir (same). This after TO and then killing Glaurung, Ungoliant, and Drauglin.

For example, i found Lotharang just now; it's useless to me, should have dropped at DL25. *IF* it had dropped then, it would have been an awesome find, and i would have enjoyed using it to slay all those pesky orcs.

[Pete Mack]

If you are bored with drops it's time to kill Morgoth

[luneya]

If you are bored with drops it's time to kill Morgoth

I concur. If you can casually mention killing Ungoliant while complaining that the reward for doing so didn't offer any improvement over what you had, then you're probably strong enough to quit clearing vaults and just finish the game already. I mean, that's the strongest (HP-wise) monster in the whole game, for Eru's sake. Just get on with it!

[Sky]

but no, i can't. Ungoliant went down *relatively* easy as i have the cloak colluin, and the double resist poison makes that specific mob easy. i still have no resist shards, sound, or chaos. Both titans are still alive, both hounds, Vecna, and Ancalong. If either sauron or morgoth decide to summon their buddies, i'm done for.

i tried this with my previous toon, had +50 speed, and still managed to die to a cave-in. not going down that road again.

[Will]

but no, i can't. Ungoliant went down *relatively* easy as i have the cloak colluin, and the double resist poison makes that specific mob easy. i still have no resist shards, sound, or chaos. Both titans are still alive, both hounds, Vecna, and Ancalong. If either sauron or morgoth decide to summon their buddies, i'm done for.

i tried this with my previous toon, had +50 speed, and still managed to die to a cave-in. not going down that road again.

Not sure what class you're playing but TO Sauron away + destruction takes care of that nicely. On my warrior Ancagalon was the toughest fight in the game because he kept summoning big breathers and I didn't want to waste any of my scrolls of destruction. On a class with the spell it's really a no-brainer.

Re: the last fight it's best to come in with a 'I will take no risks' approach than a 'I will kill Sauron/Big M' approach. I don't care if I can only get a couple of hits in before "resetting" the fight. They will die eventually.

[Derakon]

but no, i can't. Ungoliant went down *relatively* easy as i have the cloak colluin, and the double resist poison makes that specific mob easy. i still have no resist shards, sound, or chaos. Both titans are still alive, both hounds, Vecna, and Ancalong. If either sauron or morgoth decide to summon their buddies, i'm done for.

i tried this with my previous toon, had +50 speed, and still managed to die to a cave-in. not going down that road again.

You don't need shards/sound/chaos resist to kill Sauron and Morgoth. You don't need any resists to kill them; the only elemental attack they use is nether and resists don't help a whole lot with that. At this point you're at much more danger of dying to some random mob due to the obsession with safety, than you are of dying to Sauron and Morgoth. Every extra turn you spend in the dungeon is a risk. As long as you play smart, Sauron and Morgoth are absolutely in your reach.

[Sky]

Ok well, i will try your advice. I got into angband with (iirc) 3.6.0 and it was not unusual going for a perfect build.

[bio_hazard]

I agree with the sentiments above- maybe some tweaking of probabilities are warranted, but forcing an order of artifacts wouldn't be my preferred way of doing it. My sense is it would make the super-rare artifacts even harder to find. Also, it would take away like 20% of the AAR threads ("OMG I just X great artifact at DL 8" <wait 2 hours> "damn, just died to plasma hounds" which is pretty much the quintessential Angband experience.

[Pete Mack]

Sauron's darkness attack does big damage, so rDark is good to have. Nether attacks are much weaker.