Idea: Radical change to stairs and Recall

[kandrc]

The same with the trap detection line. If playing a mage type, I still detect just as often (probably more often, because now I'm not sure how far I've moved before wanting to detect again).

Ditto that. The line was a Good Thing. It didn't only tell you when to detect traps again, but when to do all your detects again.

[bio_hazard]

This is really only an issue on dlevels 1-10 or so right? That's a good time to teach the players that they should really prioritize early escape spells like teleportation.

Can you explain why this is true? We are forcing more exploration and the player has less information, which means more risk regardless of the level.

[AnonymousHero]

I think I'm just going to repeat this in every thread about this topic[1]: DO IT LIKE POSCHENG/CHENG/HENG/ENTRO. It's simple, intuitive and it prevents stairscumming.

[1] Hey, it worked for debo, right? Eventually we did get Rocketband .

[Pete Mack]

@AH--
you mean have multiple dungeons where you never get too deep?

Anyway, there's tons of detection in Zangband derivatives, just like there is in V. The only one that doesn't have lots of detection is Sil, and that takes care of it by small, really dangerous, levels, and not too many of them. The danger is compressed: you are liable to die at any point. But the rewards are too: you WILL pick up multiple ego items on every level. The two (really one) things you won't see a lot is detection and ID.

[fizzix]

Can you explain why this is true? We are forcing more exploration and the player has less information, which means more risk regardless of the level.

Because after about level 10 you never escape by running to the stairs. You escape by teleportation. Or in a pinch, repeated phase door while waiting for WoR to kick in. If a dangerous monster is guarding the stairs, you have to figure out how do deal with it regardless of whether you know exactly where the stairs are.

What would make things riskier is not knowing where *monsters* are.

[Pete Mack]

@fizzix.
Well that too. But the monsters have too high a variance for this to work for all but either the fastest divers (just by good luck) or the most patient level-clearers (to maximize stats by dl 45) You just can't afford to meet very many undetected Drolems or Dracoliches.

[bio_hazard]

OK- I thought this was in conjunction with getting rid of WoR too. I still run for the stairs whenever I can though, regardless of level. Tele gets risky, and although safe, WoR as an escape feels cowardly (I'll still do it)

[Pete Mack]

I don't think anyone is seriously considering getting rid of WoR. (To channel Eddie: it's just freeing up an inventory slot in a way that doesn't improve gameplay.)

[Derakon]

I don't think anyone is seriously considering getting rid of WoR. (To channel Eddie: it's just freeing up an inventory slot in a way that doesn't improve gameplay.)

We've had serious discussions in the past about replacing WoR with fixed portals back to town, which might or might not spawn on any given level (or might spawn only on levels that are multiples of 5, or...). That would turn every dungeon dive into a mini-ironman session.

[AnonymousHero]

@AH--
you mean have multiple dungeons where you never get too deep?

No. Instead of trying to explain it over several posts, please just try PosChengband (probably easiest to get running) and report back. Obviously you should descend/ascend a few levels using the same/different stairs to get a feel for it. Once you try it's just so obvious and intuitive that there's no reason (outside of challenge mode) to invent anything else. (EDIT: ... and I implore the Angband developers to try it!)

EDIT: I really think that if level-scumming is curbed in a reasonable way (i.e. the 'Cheng' way), everything else suddenly becomes tractable.

EDIT: No comment on the detection thing with this specific suggestion. JUST DO LEVELS LIKE POS/CHENG/etc.

[Nick]

I think I'm just going to repeat this in every thread about this topic[1]: DO IT LIKE POSCHENG/CHENG/HENG/ENTRO. It's simple, intuitive and it prevents stairscumming.

You're right, this would be a great fix for stairscumming - which we weren't really talking about

[Estie]

I havent played Poscheng...how do stairs work there ?

[PowerWyrm]

I havent played Poscheng...how do stairs work there ?

Levels are static until you recall, so no stairscumming.

[Pete Mack]

It's not just that. Monsters adjacent to you go down the stairs with you.

[dos350]

please do not do this or any radical change to gameplay

make it a variant!