Mudd - new member

[Mudd]

also ....Banishment only removes all monsters of a creature type.
How do I tell it what type? I'm using shockbolts tiles. I understand in Ascii I would give it a letter, but there are no letters here.

[Derakon]

also ....Banishment only removes all monsters of a creature type.
How do I tell it what type? I'm using shockbolts tiles. I understand in Ascii I would give it a letter, but there are no letters here.

This is probably the biggest game-mechanical problem with using tiles. Hit "/" then a letter to be told what type of monster uses that letter. E.g. /Z will tell you that "Z" is used for Zephyr Hounds. Most of the letters match up to their monster category reasonably well (L for lich, D for greater dragon, W for wight, etc.), but it's useful to know that U is for greater demons and A for maiar (formerly angels).

[Mondkalb]

And be careful not to read Banishment, if you are low on HP (your @ get some HPs substracted for each monster removed). I once killed a character with reading Banishment to get rid of some Demons that were summoned by a Balrog - apparently there had been a pit on the level (might be not that much of a problem nowadays, because the pits are now smaller).

[Ingwe Ingweron]

And be careful not to read Banishment, if you are low on HP (you some HPs substracted for each monster removed). I once killed a character with reading Banishment to get rid of some Demons that were summoned by a Balrog - apparently there had been a pit on the level (might be not that much of a problem nowadays, because the pits are now smaller).

Indeed, that is a problem, but not usually when reading these scrolls for the end-game fight with Morgoth. A @ can't afford to get below 600 hps, since a mana storm from Morgoth would then instakill. So, when reading the banishment or mass banishment scrolls, @ should be safe. Although, it's wise to first Phase Door and be out of LOS, so if reading drops @ below 600 hps, you aren't immediately vulnerable and have time to heal.

[Mudd]

Well....took Mordoth down to 50% then between a Netherwraith breathing and an earthquake I went from 800 HP to dead in a blink.

So much for that. I could not control the mobs. I thought if I TO'd the uniques they wouldn't keep coming back, but they didn't seem to go far and stayed in the fight after short delays. Morgoth summoned constantly. This battle is simply no fun. Half the time Morgoth wouldn't even approach and I'd have to deal with the mobs. Phase didn't take me out of line of sight well over half the time in a destructed area.

One thing I'm not sure about...got a message that scores aren't registered for cheaters. I assume that's because I turned on Monster Memory?
I did make a copy of my save before the big battle, but I'm not even sure I'll go back and try again.

Next time I'll be taking out more uniques before attacking the big guy. I honestly feel they were the tipping point. Tarrasque, Vecna, Maedlin, Gothmog, Pazuzu, and a few others I don't remember.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=19675

[Scraper]

Sorry to see you make it all the way to the end and lose in the final fight. It seems like you had all the tools available for a win.

The final fight is usually a battle that takes some time. Morgoth has 20,000 hp iirc, so that's quite a lot of hits while taking quite a lot of damage each round.

I think in the last fight I had with him, I had to TO him at least half a dozen times to destruct his summons. I too hadn't killed all the uniques so had quite a lot to deal with.

I must have read ?phase door at least a dozen times to either heal or LOS some of his summons. I recall at least 1 time when the unique Q was also summoning so that TO of P and *destruction was particularly gratifying.

Anyway, better luck next time. Hope you get your revenge soon.

[Pete Mack]

You died with 9 *Destruction* left. Use them on non-unique summons. Teleport unique summons when possible, or destroy them if you must. If you fight near the corner of the cave layout teleported monsters (and others) are *much* less likely to find their way back. Nether wraith and Greater balrog alone is too many dangerous monsters in the area.
Edit: You also had 8 ?Mass Banishment. Use them or lose them. Surrounded by scary non-uniques is exactly the right time.

[Mudd]

You died with 9 *Destruction* left. Use them on non-unique summons. Teleport unique summons when possible, or destroy them if you must. If you fight near the corner of the cave layout teleported monsters (and others) are *much* less likely to find their way back. Nether wraith and Greater balrog alone is too many dangerous monsters in the area.
Edit: You also had 8 ?Mass Banishment. Use them or lose them. Surrounded by scary non-uniques is exactly the right time.

Better luck next time....I have no will to revisit this fight at the moment.

I was in the corner of the map for what it's worth.

To tell the truth I was having much more fun hunting uniques.

I really had a hard time fighting in a destructed zone.
The map is probably much cleaner in ASCII over tiles in a destructed zone.
I had a hard time telling LOS. Never had a chance to get one clean arrow shot at Morgoth. This is probably my inexperience too. I still aren't really sure how to shoot an arrow any direction other than straight.

Is it possible to beat Morgoth in an ASC? The reason I ask is that the earthquake alone wouldn't have killed me....and an ASC corridor wouldn't have allowed the mob to cause me problems.

[Pete Mack]

Better luck next time....
Is it possible to beat Morgoth in an ASC? The reason I ask is that the earthquake alone wouldn't have killed me....and an ASC corridor wouldn't have allowed the mob to cause me problems.

ASC doesn't work for M. You really do need to rely on scrolls. Use 5 to access targeting. Space will cycle through targets. Direction keys will take you to target nearest in approximate direction. Use 'x' to access fine grain targeting. This gives you better LOS abuse.

Yoi have to expect a certain number of losses to Morgoth. There is a chance of getting blasted every time he summons uniques, even if you banish all his ordinary summons. If you are having fun killing uniques, that's fine. No need to rush in that case. Just hang on dl 99 and make sure you maintain a good supply of comsumables.

[Scraper]

I still aren't really sure how to shoot an arrow any direction other than straight.

Is it possible to beat Morgoth in an ASC? The reason I ask is that the earthquake alone wouldn't have killed me....and an ASC corridor wouldn't have allowed the mob to cause me problems.

Were you using the target command to shoot ranged? Using the target command is almost mandatory for using shooters and spells.

In my current game I'm playing a mage and you have to use the target command to get trick shots, wake up monsters out of LOS and also just blast away at monsters in a room without even being able to see them with AOE spells.

You could set up an ASC, but with grond it will get wrecked pretty fast. Also, you will have to phase door several times to heal etc. Any time big P and any of his summons have you in LOS, you are at risk of dying since any combo of his big attacks and another breather will kill you. The name of the game is fighting just Morgoth and either destructing or banishing his summons. Of course if you want to destruct, you need to TO Morgoth away first.

[Mudd]

ASC doesn't work for M. You really do need to rely on scrolls. Use 5 to access targeting. Space will cycle through targets. Direction keys will take you to target nearest in approximate direction. Use 'x' to access fine grain targeting. This gives you better LOS abuse.

Yoi have to expect a certain number of losses to Morgoth. There is a chance of getting blasted every time he summons uniques, even if you banish all his ordinary summons. If you are having fun killing uniques, that's fine. No need to rush in that case. Just hang on dl 99 and make sure you maintain a good supply of comsumables.

Wasn't familiar with this targeting. All I knew was f and a direction key.
The UI doesn't really make this intuitive to discover.

Aw well, like I said. I have to sleep on it and decide on my next character race class.

[Mudd]

Were you using the target command to shoot ranged? Using the target command is almost mandatory for using shooters and spells.

In my current game I'm playing a mage and you have to use the target command to get trick shots, wake up monsters out of LOS and also just blast away at monsters in a room without even being able to see them with AOE spells.

You could set up an ASC, but with grond it will get wrecked pretty fast. Also, you will have to phase door several times to heal etc. Any time big P and any of his summons have you in LOS, you are at risk of dying since any combo of his big attacks and another breather will kill you. The name of the game is fighting just Morgoth and either destructing or banishing his summons. Of course if you want to destruct, you need to TO Morgoth away first.

Yeah, that makes sense.

[luneya]

Roguelikes don't spoonfeed you what you need to know the way that more "modern" video games do. You cannot expect to play well without at least reading the documentation carefully, as there's no helpful NPC to tell you all of the relevant commands immediately upon picking up a new object. With other roguelikes, I'd say that you need to read the spoilers as well, but recent versions of Angband are relatively friendly in that regard.

[Mondkalb]

I usually also try to get rid of at least the most dangerous uniques before fighting Morgoth. In fact, it is worth to let the lesser ones alive, because then Morgoth will summon them.

As others have said, it is necessary to clean the fight area with *destruction* if it gets too dangerous. Though I seldom had too use it often, because Morgoth himself helps a lot with his earthquake blows to get rid of dangerous monsters at least blocking line of sight.

[Carnivean]

The name of the game is fighting just Morgoth and either destructing or banishing his summons. Of course if you want to destruct, you need to TO Morgoth away first.

This is the fundamental point that people have been trying to make. TO Morgoth away, then get rid of the summons.

If you destruction Morgoth you need to do the whole fight again, so you need him away from the area, so TO him to the other side of the map, then destruct the area.

Alternatively use one of your turns to mass banish (or regular banish if a particular summons is plentiful, eg D or U) if you have enough health and there are no uniques.

Or both.

TO, mass banish, destruct, heal and wait for Morgoth to run back to fight you. You might even get a chance to some free range attacks in on him. He'll barely have gained any hitpoints back, but you're now back to an optimal position.