Rune-based ID

[Nick]

I understand that pseudo-id is gone... but why removing the ego quality squelching categories? Before, I could squelch slay dragon and such vs westernesse and such by choosing "excellent but not splendid" as a category. Now I have to select "non-artifact" and squelch all egos in the ego item ignore menu manually...

Because the inscriptions "excellent" and "splendid" no longer appear in the game, and even the concepts they represent are no gone in the new ID system.

The =Mouse issue is now fixed in development - thanks PowerWyrm and spara for working that out.

[Bogatyr]

So I'm still wondering: what compensations are mages receiving in return for the loss of the identify spell? The "mage bargain" (total knowledge [detects, identify] and eventual control [kelek's] over the game/dungeon, at the expense of being very weak for a very long time) is being weakened fairly considerably in my eyes with rune ID.

[AnonymousHero]

So I'm still wondering: what compensations are mages receiving in return for the loss of the identify spell? The "mage bargain" (total knowledge [detects, identify] and eventual control [kelek's] over the game/dungeon, at the expense of being very weak for a very long time) is being weakened fairly considerably in my eyes with rune ID.

Why do they need one?

[Bogatyr]

Because it seems kind of unbalanced to take an aspect of the game where one class is far better than the others, and just remove it. The mage suffers quite a lot already for its weakness, for which it is made up in convenience and control/knowledge. But like I said, I seem to be in the minority on this point, so oh well. It is always a "magical moment" for a mage to reach clev 11, a turning of a major corner in the early game.

[Derakon]

Because it seems kind of unbalanced to take an aspect of the game where one class is far better than the others, and just remove it. The mage suffers quite a lot already for its weakness, for which it is made up in convenience and control/knowledge. But like I said, I seem to be in the minority on this point, so oh well. It is always a "magical moment" for a mage to reach clev 11, a turning of a major corner in the early game.

Eh, having Identify was nice, sure, but I never really felt like it was a big turning point for mages, because literally every class carried enough identification to ID everything before trying it on, if necessary. It's just that most classes used consumables for that purpose, rather than spells.

So yeah, I'd say you're in the minority here. I don't feel like the mage needs to be compensated for the loss of this spell any more than any other class needs to be compensated for the loss of purchasable Identify consumables.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

So yeah, I'd say you're in the minority here. I don't feel like the mage needs to be compensated for the loss of this spell any more than any other class needs to be compensated for the loss of purchasable Identify consumables.

Count me in on the minority report. I think mages and priests should keep their Identify spell, although modified to only identify a single rune. In addition isn't there now an Identify scroll to identify single runes? (My only complaint with the scrolls was they stopped appearing after a certain depth, resulting in deep diving being penalized from lack of identify). Isn't this the way it works on both counts now in the nightlies, or has that been changed again?

[Bogatyr]

Eh, having Identify was nice, sure, but I never really felt like it was a big turning point for mages, because literally every class carried enough identification to ID everything before trying it on, if necessary. It's just that most classes used consumables for that purpose, rather than spells.

Consumables run out, especially when you hit vaults. This just happened to an on-again-off-again warrior I'm playing, who entered the dungeon with a stack of 40 charges in identify staves, and still ran out. Getting the identify spell was always HUGE for me, and still is. Humbug.

The mythos of the mage is that you get almost all of the most useful utilities, in infinite supply.

[Derakon]

Consumables run out, especially when you hit vaults. This just happened to an on-again-off-again warrior I'm playing, who entered the dungeon with a stack of 40 charges in identify staves, and still ran out. Getting the identify spell was always HUGE for me, and still is. Humbug.

By the time you're hitting vaults in any significant quantity, you should know enough runes that almost every item should auto-ID anyway. The entire goal of rune-based ID was to reduce the amount of identification the player had to do without stripping away the concept of un-identified items altogether.

[debo]

Give mages the id spell back, have it id all runes on all items in LOS but permanently drain 1 int.

[Bogatyr]

Give mages the id spell back, have it id all runes on all items in LOS but permanently drain 1 int.

Great idea, but how about draining cha instead

[Bogatyr]

By the time you're hitting vaults in any significant quantity, you should know enough runes that almost every item should auto-ID anyway. The entire goal of rune-based ID was to reduce the amount of identification the player had to do without stripping away the concept of un-identified items altogether.

Well I'll have to playtest it, but given that mages (at least mine) avoid all melee combat means that runes will be very dangerous to figure out. Rune id forces melee in order to identify things, unless I'm missing something? That's effectively forcing a pretty dramatic play style change.

How about giving mages then some "remote melee" (boomerang?) spell that lets them try out weapons (regardless of weight) without stepping into melee range? That would be decent compensation for loosing their prior "I know everything about everything" at clev 11.

[Bogatyr]

Never mind, all is good. I'm running the July 30 nightly and I see there is a mage spell at clev 11 "Identify" that identifies one unknown rune.

[Bogatyr]

After spending some play time with it, I will say I like the rune-based ID -- mage has identify rune spell, so mage play is fine. ID only by sell/use for consumables introduces inventory pressure, which while as a character I find annoying, does introduce some more trade-off in play.

[wobbly]

So not sure if it's intentional, but if you turn off "start with a kit of useful gear" & walk in to a shop, weapons display as 0d0 & all armour as 0 AC.

Edit: Seems if I go punch something I now know what weapons & armour are

[Nick]

So not sure if it's intentional, but if you turn off "start with a kit of useful gear" & walk in to a shop, weapons display as 0d0 & all armour as 0 AC.

Edit: Seems if I go punch something I now know what weapons & armour are

I think technically that's a bug. The first iteration of rune-based ID the weapon dice and armour class weren't even displayed until the player had used them; that changed, but it looks like I missed that birth option.