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  • Carnivean
    Knight
    • Sep 2013
    • 527

    #16
    Originally posted by Egavactip
    Well, I just this second found Kelek's on DL33. So that is going to help!
    Don't genocide until you have enough HP to survive it!

    Comment

    • Egavactip
      Swordsman
      • Mar 2012
      • 442

      #17
      Originally posted by Carnivean
      Don't genocide until you have enough HP to survive it!
      A lesson I've learned the hard way in the past!

      so far up to CL33 and still alive. Problems are relatively low speed (+4 without spell speed), low hit points (constitution only 14, with 175hp), and poor armor class (got a robe of permanence, which is quite handy, but the values on most of my other pieces of armor are quite low). Missing a nether resist, which is starting to get risky at this point. I have Kelek's, Scarabtarice and Tenser's, but am missing Raal and Mordenkainen. Raal's would be nice to give me more damage causing flexibility. Also a little slow on consumable hoarding so far, but that should improve. I have not found any missile weapon yet better than a crossbow of power, so that's a real shame.

      One thing that has helped this particular character survive so far is that he got telepathy relatively quickly. I've had other characters in this chain of misery who never did get any ESP. At least with the newest version of Angband I now have the possibility of finding light sources with mapping abilities, which were not possible in the previous versions. But this character hasn't found anything but the vial equivalent so far.

      Comment

      • Egavactip
        Swordsman
        • Mar 2012
        • 442

        #18
        Okay, now all those previous character deaths in a row has made me gunshy. Maybe that's a good thing, I don't know. But now my character is up to CL 38 and has acquired some really tasty gear. I only need to swap for sound or shards, plus I have immunity to cold and fire. My mage is dealing 376 pts of damage a round, too. His speed is only +16, though. He could also use a really nice helmet; all he has now is a helm of the magi. But he seems to be over the "hump." Still missing the two spell books, though, both of which could come in really handy right about now. He hasn't gotten to any really big vaults but soon, presumably. He does need a lot of consumables, which haven't really been popping up too much so far. Oh, and his modified constitution is still only 18/101, which for a mage is a big deal, as he has few hit points to give up. need to find those potions of constitution! He does have a >200 ac with shield cast, though, which helps with the HP. This character has lasted longer on this particular run of attempts with this race/class combo than all the others except the first (who was killed while gathering a few last consumables for the final battles). So it would be awful if he died now!

        Comment

        • Carnivean
          Knight
          • Sep 2013
          • 527

          #19
          Originally posted by Egavactip
          Oh, and his modified constitution is still only 18/101, which for a mage is a big deal, as he has few hit points to give up. need to find those potions of constitution! He does have a >200 ac with shield cast, though, which helps with the HP.
          Who is getting close enough to hit you?

          Comment

          • Scraper
            Apprentice
            • Mar 2011
            • 99

            #20
            Originally posted by Carnivean
            Who is getting close enough to hit you?
            All of my mages usually die at around this point from overconfidence and the inability to spot green g's or from the sudden jump in hound strength.

            Best of luck with this one!

            Comment

            • Egavactip
              Swordsman
              • Mar 2012
              • 442

              #21
              Originally posted by Carnivean
              Who is getting close enough to hit you?
              When you can cause more damage more quickly in melee than with spells, with little risk to yourself, you engage in melee. Also if you don't want your spells to inadvertently wake up other monsters by affecting them, i.e. congested situations with various nasties. It is odd that IIRC there is no high level damage spell that can only affect one individual (without balling or beaming or meteor striking through something).

              This particular character is now quite good at melee so I won't shy away from it when it is to his advantage. Some things you just want to kill quickly.

              Comment

              • Carnivean
                Knight
                • Sep 2013
                • 527

                #22
                Originally posted by Egavactip
                This particular character is now quite good at melee so I won't shy away from it when it is to his advantage. Some things you just want to kill quickly.
                As long as you know which fight is worth meleeing. You don't have enough hitpoints for that much armour to make a significant difference I feel, but I guess it would make you nearly impervious to orcs and trolls and the like.

                Comment

                • Egavactip
                  Swordsman
                  • Mar 2012
                  • 442

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Carnivean
                  As long as you know which fight is worth meleeing. You don't have enough hitpoints for that much armour to make a significant difference I feel, but I guess it would make you nearly impervious to orcs and trolls and the like.
                  I think when you get AC over 200 it makes a real difference. But I am being careful right now regardless because I don't yet have excess (i.e. a surplus over 40) heal potions to carry around with me instead of CCW. I also just got a kickass artifact bow, finally, which has replaced my much weaker crossbow of mediocrity. So now I have a decent distance alternative for dealing high damage in addition to spells. Much more well rounded now: got Kelek's and Raels, got good missile weapon, good good melee weapon and armor class.

                  Comment

                  • Egavactip
                    Swordsman
                    • Mar 2012
                    • 442

                    #24
                    Well, so much for WizardBoy12. Goddammit. Died CL40 at DL62. Killed in a vault by a Gelugon who suddenly stepped into line of sight from off the top of the screen at long range and did a 500 point shard attack on my 479 hp character. That was one of only two swappable resistances I had. Dead immediately with -21 hp. Any other attack from it and I would have been fine, with immunity to cold. Never even had a chance to react--it was one of those instances where you just stare at the screen a while until it sinks in what just happened.

                    How irritating. I had been winning a number of games in the row and now this colossal string of failures. And this character had just been getting REALLY GOOD, too.

                    I guess lucky number 13 is next. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Back to goddamn magic missiles.

                    Comment

                    • Egavactip
                      Swordsman
                      • Mar 2012
                      • 442

                      #25
                      I suppose I continue to update this saga mostly for my own ego. My next high-elf mage died at around cl27 or so, but I only have myself to blame. I was mopping up the last little bits of what I thought was an empty level and got surprised by a sudden basilisk that breathed poison at me. I was so surprised that I had already hit the arrow key before I realized what had happened and he breathed twice in a row and killed me deader than dead.

                      That was demoralizing, but my next character got a potion of experience at DL4 and is already up to 28th level now (closing in on 29), so with that nice bit of luck I actually didn't lose very much time. Now I get to wonder what the next death will be.

                      I've been trying to figure out why I have had such a run of deaths without a victory with this race/class configuration and I wonder if the large number of xp required has anything to do with it--either making me get a little careless because of the extra time or putting me in situations in which my HP just don't measure up to snuff or something else. I haven't had this difficulty before. Of course, it could just be the fickle hand of fate combined with my usual impatience (quickly moving through dungeons tends to be, directly or indirectly, my number one cause of death).

                      Comment

                      • Ingwe Ingweron
                        Veteran
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 2129

                        #26
                        What are you used to playing? Have you played other Mage combinations with greater success? Personally, mage is the hardest for me, with the overwhelming number of my @ death's being mages, no matter the race combination. I find that they require a different style of play which takes me awhile to adjust to.
                        “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                        ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                        Comment

                        • Carnivean
                          Knight
                          • Sep 2013
                          • 527

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Egavactip
                          I was mopping up the last little bits of what I thought was an empty level

                          my next character got a potion of experience at DL4 and is already up to 28th level now
                          I think these are the biggest problems. You're spending too long on levels and too little time descending the dungeon. If you can kill everything on the level, then you are way too shallow. Mages can detect everything around them, and that means that they can see problems happening well in advance and have the tools to deal with them.

                          The other problem with clearing a level is that monsters that spawn while you are on a level (random chance on each turn on the level for a spawn) do so awake. This means that you won't know they are there unless you are paranoid, and they know you are there. Basilisks, dragons and other breathers get wonderful chances to ambush you and finish you.

                          Once you have your kit and spells in order, try for 1 clvl = 2 dlvl progression at least. All the stuff you need (dungeon books, stats potions, better equipment, etc) is in much greater supply further down. Fight only what you want to fight, grab the items you can and leave. If it's too tough work out how to control its proximity to you, or leave if you can't.

                          Once you can detect anything, control proximity and leave when you want, then you can exist in most places safely. All the cool stuff that you want is in vaults in dlvl 90-98, and will constantly spawn there (unless it's a rare artifact, like the One Ring or Deathwreaker or Razorback).

                          Comment

                          • Egavactip
                            Swordsman
                            • Mar 2012
                            • 442

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                            What are you used to playing? Have you played other Mage combinations with greater success? Personally, mage is the hardest for me, with the overwhelming number of my @ death's being mages, no matter the race combination. I find that they require a different style of play which takes me awhile to adjust to.
                            I've won with other mages; two, I think. One was human. I probably play different character classes more or less equally. I've played mages fewer overall, because I only started playing them when I became experienced, but I think I have a grasp on them. Their low HP do render them more vulnerable, regardless of their powers, of course.

                            Comment

                            • Nivra
                              Adept
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 112

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Carnivean
                              Once you have your kit and spells in order, try for 1 clvl = 2 dlvl progression at least. All the stuff you need (dungeon books, stats potions, better equipment, etc) is in much greater supply further down. Fight only what you want to fight, grab the items you can and leave. If it's too tough work out how to control its proximity to you, or leave if you can't.

                              Once you can detect anything, control proximity and leave when you want, then you can exist in most places safely. All the cool stuff that you want is in vaults in dlvl 90-98, and will constantly spawn there (unless it's a rare artifact, like the One Ring or Deathwreaker or Razorback).
                              I'm guessing this strategy doesn't really work for forced descent? I imagine I'd have to abandon quite a few levels fairly quickly due to sticky situations. And forced descent would push me too deep too fast.

                              Comment

                              • Derakon
                                Prophet
                                • Dec 2009
                                • 9022

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Nivra
                                I'm guessing this strategy doesn't really work for forced descent? I imagine I'd have to abandon quite a few levels fairly quickly due to sticky situations. And forced descent would push me too deep too fast.
                                Forced descent still leaves you with a lot of "extra" levels; I'd guess you can afford to skip upwards of, oh, 33% of the dungeon and still be able to put together a reasonable endgame character. But yes, you can't just simply drop to the bottom of the dungeon and then replay levels over and over again.

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