Mage's SP

[Garrie]

well that justifies the way I have been trying to play. I just gotta get from 2k to 3k feet quicker! All the nifty looking pits drag me too far from the < ...

So: yes, STAIR scum: that is, scum for stairs, not for good levels!

[ChodTheWacko]

Well, I sunk my character down to 4900 and I'm poking around now.
I'm not dead (yet), but some observations:

It's hard to imagine surviving at an extremely low depth via diving without:
1) High stealth.
If you are so low that anything awake can destroy you, you can't wake anything up.
Stealth is probably the most important thing.

2) Telepathy
So you can see if something woke up that you need to avoid

3) Speed.
Monsters are not only nasty, but FAST, which makes running very difficult.
Things can wake up and nail you before you blink.

Side note: Teleport is very very dangerous.
Teleport other doesn't help when you hit a monster that can go through walls.

What's the 'worst' character you've driven down to 4900, and survived to tell the tale? Or at least, least equipped?

- Frank

[Garrie]

Well, I sunk my character down to 4900 and I'm poking around now.
...
What's the 'worst' character you've driven down to 4900, and survived to tell the tale? Or at least, least equipped?

- Frank

well Frank you've beat me to my current mission. I'll fill you in when I get there.... chances are though it will be a mage with at least one dungeon spell book, being Mordenkenenenenens Escapes.

[Marble Dice]

Some good advice on power diving in this thread, but one minor point escapes me: How exactly is a level 1 mage supposed to kill Fang or Grip? They move quickly and it only takes about 4 bites to tombstone you. The dogs have 20 HP, and magic missile (>10% fail) only does 7.5 damage on average at that level. You've got at most 3 SP, assuming you manage to rest between detecting a dog and facing it. It's difficult to hit them with a bow. Am I missing a part of the picture, because it doesn't seem very likely or easy to me? They kill me every time unless they enter from the other end of a large, well-lit room, which is hard to set up. Granted, they're pretty easy at level 2-3 and it's not like re-rolling is a big deal at that point.

[Narvius]

By the time I meet them, I'm usually around level 3. Then you just have to spot them early enough (at least three squares away).
I almost never died because of the dogs after my best so far char (which was a warrior).

Or just take a bow with you. Longbow is optimal.

[Bandobras]

Phase Door scrolls and flasks of oil?

[Narvius]

I never have never thrown flasks of oil. Does it really help?

[Bandobras]

I've led countless CL 1 hobbit mages to glorious victory over Fang&Grip with them and scrolls of Phase Door in V and variants. What can go wrong?

[Marble Dice]

I never have never thrown flasks of oil. Does it really help?

They inflict 2d6 (avg 7) points of non-elemental damage. Compare to a Longbow (+0, +0) (x3) shooting a 1d4 arrow for an average of 7.5 damage.

[Narvius]

Well, I never *needed* to use them. But who cares, Fang and Grip are no real threat...

[Marble Dice]

Well, I never *needed* to use them. But who cares, Fang and Grip are no real threat...

Ordinarily, yes, they are easy. But I'm talking about a clevel 1 mage with limited resources: ~10 hp, 3 SP, 2 spells, and 100 gp. Sure it's possible to kill them, but I don't see why it's "easy" as kandrc originally claims in his power diver post. If you spend your SP on magic missile, you'll still have to finish them off with a bow or oil, and if you bought a bow+arrows, you probably don't have much money left for scrolls of phase door. A mage's low ranged skill makes it difficult to hit them, especially with their movement speed and damage output (compared to a CL1 mage's max hp). At the end of the day, it still seems pretty dicey to me, so I usually just run unless I get an ideal setup or a higher clevel.

[Narvius]

Well, if you can't kill them, avoid them. That's Angband.

[PowerDiver]

But I'm talking about a clevel 1 mage with limited resources: ~10 hp, 3 SP, 2 spells, and 100 gp.

Why would you limit yourself to 100 AU? You should use the autoroller for max str/int/con and even then I think you average over 300 gp. Buy a couple ?phase and a ranged attack for sure. You can kill rogues, drunks, and merchants in town for some more too.

[Marble Dice]

Why would you limit yourself to 100 AU? You should use the autoroller for max str/int/con and even then I think you average over 300 gp. Buy a couple ?phase and a ranged attack for sure. You can kill rogues, drunks, and merchants in town for some more too.

Really? Seems like four out of five, I get less than 200 gp. And when I get more, there's usually no ranged weapons in stock. I always forget about cash scumming in town, I'll have to just do that when I don't get the silver spoon.

[PowerDiver]

Really? Seems like four out of five, I get less than 200 gp. And when I get more, there's usually no ranged weapons in stock. I always forget about cash scumming in town, I'll have to just do that when I don't get the silver spoon.

I just autorolled 3 high-elf mages, and all started with 100.

However, 3 hobbit mages started with 396, 344, and 318.

I guess race makes a big difference.
Sorry, I didn't know things were set up that way.