About the stupidest thing you can do without dying...

[Thraalbee]

F* keys don't work for me. I'm a touch-typist using the rogue-like key set. Anything that requires me to reach too far from the touch typing "home position" slows me down.

Another one! No problem, you can bind control sequences too.
I typically bind these keys

^W = R&<enter>
^A = default magical attack (if any)
^E = identify
^G = some utility spell

[Bogatyr]

Another one! No problem, you can bind control sequences too.
I typically bind these keys

^W = R&<enter>
^A = default magical attack (if any)
^E = identify
^G = some utility spell

Hello, brother! Yes, I do: ^A to magic missile, ^B to fire bolt, but that's about it. I'm very fast with the store book 3 char sequences.

[jrodman]

Because then you cannot access the inventory slot under 'a' when you use the 'm' command. It'd be an odd way for the program to behave.

That's not very convincing when that's exactly what the player wants. The player wants mab to always cast the same spell. It's not perfect, but it's a lot less odd than "you get a random spell if you suffered a fire attack." There's really no reason that the 'm' and 'p' commands have to be inventory based.

I agree the single letter system is better -- if it fits.

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Another approach would be for angband to simply not resort / compact the inventory constantly. Honestly I have never liked the behavior.

[Nick]

I agree the single letter system is better -- if it fits.

So what I'm hearing is 29 spells is too many

[Bimbul]

So what I'm hearing is 29 spells is too many

Use another font

[Bogatyr]

No, just fixate the spellbook casting letter slots per book and free them from inventory slots. Treat them sort of like a spellbook quiver from the point of casting.

[Timo Pietilä]

No, just fixate the spellbook casting letter slots per book and free them from inventory slots. Treat them sort of like a spellbook quiver from the point of casting.

Spellbook quiver. A VERY good idea. If you lose the book where spell is, then you simply don't have that spell.

Kind of like mindcrafters in NPP (sangband? Psiband? forgot which had that).

It does have a bit information leak problem though, if you for example find Godly Insights before Ethereal Openings you have a gap in spells.

Also it would require uppercase and lowercase letters and some numbers to get them all in one list.

Maybe add some sort of "spell evolution" with clvl:s and have less spells to select. Detect monsters -> detect monsters and doors and traps, -> reveal monsters, doors, traps - > detection.

That's single spell slot that contains four separate spells.

Elemental bolts could "add elemental" so that you hit the monster with all of those you know. Ball spells are a bit tougher because you might not want to use fireball when there is *acquirement* under the monster.

[Bogatyr]

Spellbook quiver. A VERY good idea. If you lose the book where spell is, then you simply don't have that spell.

Kind of like mindcrafters in NPP (sangband? Psiband? forgot which had that).

It does have a bit information leak problem though, if you for example find Godly Insights before Ethereal Openings you have a gap in spells.

Also it would require uppercase and lowercase letters and some numbers to get them all in one list.

Maybe add some sort of "spell evolution" with clvl:s and have less spells to select. Detect monsters -> detect monsters and doors and traps, -> reveal monsters, doors, traps - > detection.

That's single spell slot that contains four separate spells.

Elemental bolts could "add elemental" so that you hit the monster with all of those you know. Ball spells are a bit tougher because you might not want to use fireball when there is *acquirement* under the monster.

I'm not sure we're talking about exactly the same thing, but I like the ideas anyway. Sounds like you're more talking about a spell quiver. I was basically just thinking of making the argument after "m" or "p" fixed so that spell book #1 is always "a", spell book #2 is always "b", etc. regardless of their presence or position in your inventory list. Or allowing a letter inscription to override the inventory slot letter.

But in an individual spell list, it wouldn't be a problem for missing spell books, those entries would just be (not available) without showing any information. The same spell would be the same letter regardless of the book's position in your inventory. It would be even cooler if you could personally customize the list to your preferences.

[Carnivean]

But in an individual spell list, it wouldn't be a problem for missing spell books, those entries would just be (not available) without showing any information. The same spell would be the same letter regardless of the book's position in your inventory. It would be even cooler if you could personally customize the list to your preferences.

If you pick up dungeon book #2 without ever having picked up dungeon book #1, you are unaware of book #1's existence, until you open the spell quiver and find a gap between town book #max and the first spell of dungeon book #2. Upon seeing that gap you should be able to deduce that there is a dungeon book #1. This is only known the player via a UI, not through gameplay.

Personally I would discount this as a significant problem, but if you're worried about information leakage as a game designer then it's definitely something to consider.

[Derakon]

If you pick up dungeon book #2 without ever having picked up dungeon book #1, you are unaware of book #1's existence, until you open the spell quiver and find a gap between town book #max and the first spell of dungeon book #2. Upon seeing that gap you should be able to deduce that there is a dungeon book #1. This is only known the player via a UI, not through gameplay.

Personally I would discount this as a significant problem, but if you're worried about information leakage as a game designer then it's definitely something to consider.

There's no need to order the spells by the books they're in. You could put all of the teleportation spells together, all of the detection spells together, etc.. Then when you get Magic for Beginners, you'd have access to spell "a", spell "j", spell "o", etc. because it has a mishmash of different spell types. Then the UI information leakage would merely be that there are more spell books period, not the order in which they're "supposed" to show up.

[Bimbul]

Maybe add some sort of "spell evolution" with clvl:s and have less spells to select. Detect monsters -> detect monsters and doors and traps, -> reveal monsters, doors, traps - > detection.

That's single spell slot that contains four separate spells.

Can you still cast the lower spell if you wish though? Detection costs far more mana than detect monsters. I'd like the choice - although admittedly detection is the only spell I'll use on that front once I've got it, as a mage, as a rogue or ranger the mana cost is far more severe and you have less mana.

If that's on offer I'll go with that as a very nice idea. I hope that's more constructive than my 'deal with it' comment elsewhere

[Nick]

There's no need to order the spells by the books they're in. You could put all of the teleportation spells together, all of the detection spells together, etc.. Then when you get Magic for Beginners, you'd have access to spell "a", spell "j", spell "o", etc. because it has a mishmash of different spell types. Then the UI information leakage would merely be that there are more spell books period, not the order in which they're "supposed" to show up.

This is starting to sound like a plan. Awesome discussion, everyone.

[Nomad]

There's no need to order the spells by the books they're in. You could put all of the teleportation spells together, all of the detection spells together, etc.. Then when you get Magic for Beginners, you'd have access to spell "a", spell "j", spell "o", etc. because it has a mishmash of different spell types. Then the UI information leakage would merely be that there are more spell books period, not the order in which they're "supposed" to show up.

This would also make it pretty easy to implement randomised spellbooks (whether in addition to or as a replacement for the standard set) - if letters are assigned to specific spells rather than by book then you can happily mix up the way they're distributed across books without causing players any memorisation problems. Which opens the door to all kinds of fun things like artefact or randart spellbooks with different spell selections, class-specific starter books, etc.

[Bogatyr]

This is starting to sound like a plan. Awesome discussion, everyone.

Yay And again I say, Yay (10 char limit)

[Rowan]

Another candidate for stupidest thing without dying...

Fighting Maeglin and holding my own! Bash, bash, bash, doing well. He's getting down into the orange, nearing the red, summons "friends."

Ugh, an annoying Horned Reaper. I'll just TO him...

You rise through the ceiling...

*looks down and fingers are in the wrong place*