4.0.3 bugs

[PowerWyrm]

I don't know what changed about monster groups, but if you enter a room full of cave spiders and you wait for a couple of them to wake up, they will simply gather around your character like bees and do nothing. I'm sure they would gangbang you in previous versions.

[PowerWyrm]

Potential bug in floor_object_for_use():

	/* Print a message if requested and there is anything left */
	if (message) {
		if (usable == obj)
			obj->number--;

		/* Get a description */
		object_desc(name, sizeof(name), obj, ODESC_PREFIX | ODESC_FULL);

		if (usable == obj)
			obj->number++;

		/* Print a message */
		msg("You see %s.", name);
	}

This assumes only one object is used from the floor, whereas the parameter of floor_object_for_use() is "num". The easiest way to fix this is to duplicate the (correct) code from gear_object_for_use().

[PowerWyrm]

I just summoned an acidic cytoplasm with an acid resistant but not immune character, and checked - it does me damage.

You need to read further in the code:

	/* Some attacks do no physical damage */
	if (!monster_blow_method_physical(context->method))
		physical_dam = 0;

	elemental_dam = adjust_dam(context->p, type, context->damage, RANDOMISE, 0);

	/* Take the larger of physical or elemental damage */
	context->damage = (physical_dam > elemental_dam) ?
		physical_dam : elemental_dam;

	if (elemental_dam > 0)
		inven_damage(context->p, type, MIN(elemental_dam * 5, 300));
	if (context->damage > 0)
		take_hit(context->p, context->damage, context->ddesc);

So the larger of physical and elemental damage is applied. In the case of TOUCH etc attacks, this is always the elemental damage. In the case of the worm masses, I am guessing they just weren't doing enough damage to register against regen.

Ah ok I see now... Worms were doing 1d2 so with poison resistance it's cut down to zero. Was assuming it was the same for all monsters...

[Nick]

Which means that in the latest version, any TOUCH, ENGULF, CRAWL, SPIT, GAZE, WAIL, SPORE attack does no damage except for side effects. This is really weakening some monsters, for example:

name:366:Acidic cytoplasm
...
blow:TOUCH:ACID:1d10
blow:TOUCH:ACID:1d10
blow:TOUCH:ACID:1d10
blow:TOUCH:ACID:1d10

It will just sit there, destroying items if you're not immune to acid -- or even doing nothing but "touching you" if you're immune.

I just summoned an acidic cytoplasm with an acid resistant but not immune character, and checked - it does me damage.

You need to read further in the code:

	/* Some attacks do no physical damage */
	if (!monster_blow_method_physical(context->method))
		physical_dam = 0;

	elemental_dam = adjust_dam(context->p, type, context->damage, RANDOMISE, 0);

	/* Take the larger of physical or elemental damage */
	context->damage = (physical_dam > elemental_dam) ?
		physical_dam : elemental_dam;

	if (elemental_dam > 0)
		inven_damage(context->p, type, MIN(elemental_dam * 5, 300));
	if (context->damage > 0)
		take_hit(context->p, context->damage, context->ddesc);

So the larger of physical and elemental damage is applied. In the case of TOUCH etc attacks, this is always the elemental damage. In the case of the worm masses, I am guessing they just weren't doing enough damage to register against regen.

[Timo Pietilä]

If does no damage. Only the physical part counts, the elemental part only counts toward item destruction (the cperc chance).

So that's a bug then, I presume? If you don't have acid immunity it should do damage even if there is no physical part of the damage.

[PowerWyrm]

I'm not sure but I seem to remember switching between physical and non-physical damage for the purpose of damage reduction when immune. So the problem was if you were immune to, say, fire then monsters with melee fire attacks (like Gothmog) would do 0 melee damage. The trick was to differentiate between physical and non-physical damage. So, for example, Gothmog, would still do his physical attack damage, but the bonus fire damage gets reduced to zero.

However, for specific attacks, like the jelly attack there really is no physical damage. So in this case, acid immunity does shield you from all the damage.

You can test this yourself by actually putting yourself next to the acidic cytoplasm. If it actually does no damage, it's bugged. It *should* do damage, it's just not counted as "physical"

If does no damage. Only the physical part counts, the elemental part only counts toward item destruction (the cperc chance).

[Timo Pietilä]

Paladin: Wrath of God lists 100 damage for the Banish Evil spell

Turn Undead has damage listed as well. Didn't notice it before, but I guess it has been there since 4.x. I bet this is same bug as that banish evil damage.

[jrodman]

Not sure if this is the place for it -- but 4.0.3 on OS X seems to crash if I ignore it for a few hours.

[Timo Pietilä]

As much sense as going down a stair and back up finding you're in a completely different area? Plus, I've been spelunking in lava tubes and lava does not flow in straight up and down flows. It meanders around quite a bit, taking paths of least resistance.

But always from the same source, so if you have lava above you then any opening from the lower part of the dungeon is "below lava level" similar to sea level and gets that part of the dungeon flooded.

You could of course make those "deep chasms with lava visible at the bottom". Kind of bottomless pits. You die to impact without feather fall and burning from lava without. Monsters with flying capabilities could go past them, it would not block the LoS and anything without flying could not pass.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

It makes sense for one level, but when you go deeper and find something else that breaks the suspension of disbelief. Two connected places where deeper one isn't flooded by lava is not logical.

As much sense as going down a stair and back up finding you're in a completely different area? Plus, I've been spelunking in lava tubes and lava does not flow in straight up and down flows. It meanders around quite a bit, taking paths of least resistance.

[Nick]

I think one of the issues is that we have an expectation of "deeper" depth being physically deeper. Of course this makes sense since we describe dungeon level in feet.

What I have proposed in the past is to have ~5 level "zones" which are governed by different terrain/monster groups. Some of these do fit the underground motif, but that's sort of limiting.

So to get around that, we should reenvision stairs as sort of "portals" that bring you to a new place. After all that's how they function in Angband anyway. That will probably help a lot with the suspension of disbelief.

One word - fizzixband

[fizzix]

It makes sense for one level, but when you go deeper and find something else that breaks the suspension of disbelief. Two connected places where deeper one isn't flooded by lava is not logical.

I think one of the issues is that we have an expectation of "deeper" depth being physically deeper. Of course this makes sense since we describe dungeon level in feet.

What I have proposed in the past is to have ~5 level "zones" which are governed by different terrain/monster groups. Some of these do fit the underground motif, but that's sort of limiting.

So to get around that, we should reenvision stairs as sort of "portals" that bring you to a new place. After all that's how they function in Angband anyway. That will probably help a lot with the suspension of disbelief.

[Timo Pietilä]

Lava makes sense to me, especially in cavern levels. I know Mt. Doom was a volcano in which Sauron forged The One Ring, so lava makes sense there. It seems feasible to me that volcanic activity in the Mountains of Angband was being harnessed by Morgoth, but I could be wrong.

It makes sense for one level, but when you go deeper and find something else that breaks the suspension of disbelief. Two connected places where deeper one isn't flooded by lava is not logical.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I find lava so out of place in dungeons that it breaks my suspension of disbelief. Call those pits of fire and I'll be fine.

Lava makes sense to me, especially in cavern levels. I know Mt. Doom was a volcano in which Sauron forged The One Ring, so lava makes sense there. It seems feasible to me that volcanic activity in the Mountains of Angband was being harnessed by Morgoth, but I could be wrong.

[Derakon]

Spiderwebs, shallow and deep water, maybe poisonous slime, areas with gas hazards, things like that would be nice.

Giant mushrooms, stala[ct|gm]ites, crevasses, collapsed tunnels (basically just flavor for dead-ended corridors), crystal formations...