New player...

[Derakon]

Just out of curiosity... did Z have the TY_CURSE? (And have you played Tome 2 with the Ancient Morgothian Curse?)

ZAngband is the originator of the TY_CURSE. "TY" means "Topi Ylinen", the primary ZAngband maintainer for most of its history.

[AnonymousHero]

ZAngband is the originator of the TY_CURSE. "TY" means "Topi Ylinen", the primary ZAngband maintainer for most of its history.

Well, obviously TY=Topi Ylinen, but I though it might be an "homage" to Topi rather than something he introduced himself .

[quarague]

"Unbalanced" monster/item/feature that causes fun is not "unbalanced". Even if it isn't always in obvious way.

I guess there was some missunderstanding on the meaning of unbalanced. I meant by unbalanced that different monsters have very different risk/reward ratios, and thus risk vs reward is not balanced across monsters. This was not meant to imply any value judgement, in fact, I believe it's a very good feature of angband that it is unbalanced in this way.

[Bimbul]

Just thought I'd return to this thread as I'm quite pleased with myself. I have a human warrior now and I've now encountered this Kavlax dragon character.
3 Times.... he is a mofo isn't he. I ran away first time after gravity and chaos attacks. I was lucky you can still read scrolls when hallucinating - didn't expect that - thought I was dead.
But.... just killed him ... I have 404 HP, 108 AC and resistance to all his attacks except gravity and shards - so I went for it as i knew I'd taken him to wounded on our first encounter.
(Took me 2 encounters to kill Medusa also and have taken out Uvatha the horseman too - although that did me no good as he drained me so bad I'd less XP after than before - my rod of restoration was (un)handily charging when I encountered him).
This game is going well though I still marvel at you guys who'd be at DL80 when I am CL 36 (two potions of experience were most helpful on that front) and still at DL44.

This is all great stuff - don't know what else is down there now that's even nastier ... eek ... but we'll see

(There must be a proper thread for this stuff somewhere - sorry)

[Bimbul]

Well - that's a lesson learned - stfu.

Just got instadeathed by a Dracolisk very soon after. Encoutered a draconic Quthulyug which summoned an ancient white dragon - beat on that relatively easily, the Q phase doored away while I was slapping the dragon and then this Dracolisk, presumably summoned by the Q appeared. Only 200 ish HP left so I made the mistake of trying to run as a quick look at it's brief monster description told me to gtfo - teleport ffs! One breath of fire and boom. Ha.

Interesting that some of the nastiest nasties are not the named uniques. The most trouble I've had (not counting those damn Hounds of various kinds) are a berseker, beholders of various kinds and that Dracolisk.

[Carnivean]

There are some seriously nasty non-uniques down there, for sure. Beware the Jabberwock.

The other thing to note is that summoners are far more dangerous that they appear, as you've just found. Kill them early, get a distance between you and use terrain to create a safe situation.

As for being deeper with a lower clvl, it's a matter of the gear that you're using. Good damage output comes from better weapons, not levels. The better gear is found lower in the dungeon.

[Bimbul]

Yeah I'm starting to get that - the potions to be found in lvls30-40 can be proper nice - staying alive down there to get those things though - that's the game I guess.

[AnonymousHero]

The other thing to note is that summoners are far more dangerous that they appear, as you've just found. Kill them early, get a distance between you and use terrain to create a safe situation.

... or be very close to them in advantageous terrain. Also remember that you can manipulate the terrain by digging -- easily forgotten in the heat of battle.

[AnonymousHero]

Well - that's a lesson learned - stfu.

The key here is learning from each death. You seem to be doing that, so I'd say you're in with a pretty good chance of making it at some point .

[Bimbul]

Thanks

Currently having my most awesome vanilla game so far with a dwarven paladin.

Been knocked down to 3 HP twice and 1 HP once (lucky) but still alive - learning to run when necessary now and not take risks with that.
My biggest scalp so far is another of the Nazgul - Akhorahil the blind - for a cool 19k XP. I have found the short bow of Amras and this has transformed a character that was initially as good with missile weapons as a wet fish to a deadly marksman. Missile weapons are for the win - I've discovered that I can't kill a master lich in melee but can spank them with missiles - this worked on the wringwraith too.

Somoene above was correct - summoners are the worst. I've had several run ins with medusa and lorgan the easteriing and we'll call it a score draw so far - generous to me. My favourite thing so far - aside from a very nice robe of permanence is 2 rods of teleport other - very very handy. But lorgan is just impossible to kill when he summons ancient dragons and greater basilisks (or whatever) all over the shop. Come to think of it there is a greater basilisk that the Nazgul summoned somewhere on my current level. I might skip that as one of those killed me last game with a one shot nexus breath. Although I'm resistant to nexus I'm still wary.

490 HP this time and getting towards maxing all stats. That robe of permanence really helps. Although my stats aren't as permanent as I first thought...

Still at a measly DL45 though at CL 35. I had a very hard time running into summoners on the late 30s-early 40s so am very very wary of diving deep until I know what's there.

Great stuff anyway - some battles are a real rush!

[Bimbul]

Come to think of it there is a greater basilisk that the Nazgul summoned somewhere on my current level. I might skip that as one of those killed me last game with a one shot nexus breath. Although I'm resistant to nexus I'm still wary.

The greater basilisk is toast. Seeker arrows of acid FTW.

[Estie]

The greater basilisk is toast. Seeker arrows of acid FTW.

Oh the waste....those arrows are precious, I save them up for Sauron!

[Bimbul]

I'm not expecting to meet Sauron without a good few months of playing to work out how to survive that long.
Took me 3 years to beat Nethack and that goes down to about DL55!

I'm sure I'll find more and better missiles - but yeah I have managed to now lose all those seeker arrows to a 9 Headed hydra - boo. Missiles are a bit limiting on their availability I've noticed though so I see your point.

[Bimbul]

Ooh now, RogRog the black troll has just dropped a pair of +8 speed boots. I'm currently wearing boots of stability and I got killed by a one-shot nexus blast last game ... hmm the dilemmas. I'm +2 speed already but +10 makes gravity attacks much less of an issue... (with other benefits too).
I suppose with 500 HP now I can maybe risk keeping the stability boots as a swap...

We'll see.

[quarague]

Speed versus nexus res is not a tricky decision, speed wins hands down. Very few things breathe nexus, and I don't think any of them breathes for more than 500 damage.
For summoners you need to make use of the terrain. Fighting a summoner in a big open room can easily be suicidal. Pick a corner in a corridor, then only one or two summons plus the summoner can see you. If that is still too dangerous, dig a summoning corridor, something like
XXXXX
XOXOX
OXOXX
XXXXX
where the X are walls and the O's are you corridor, if you stand at the end of it, only one monster can see and target you, so you can finish of the summoner without being bothered by the summons.