Long time without artifacts

[fph]

This guy on the ladder has found 14 artifacts between (standard) turn 1 and 83k, and then no more ones from then on (over 200k turns now). Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Of course I have spent most of that time at 4800' or so, at high speed, looking for gear. In particular, I have never found an artifact for several slots; not a single cloak, for instance.

Is this normal? Just RNG being RNG? Has something in the artifact allocation been changed recently? Is this a bug? I am playing v4.0.1.

No funny birth options are on. I have tried (on a copy of the savefile) creating an artifact with debug commands, and it worked.

[Nick]

This has been reported before, and I've dismissed it as just random drop rates. I can't think of a mechanism that would make this happen, but I am keeping it in mind (I have a whole section of my mind for this sort of information, previously stocked with trivia about 80's popular culture, so it's win-win).

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Another poll choice: Maybe - but it's hard to tell.

Artifact drop rates do appear to be lower than in 3.5.1 or even 4.0 beta, but I can't really be sure. My last several characters have scummed DL 98 and 99 waiting to get enough hitpoints to take on the Bosses, but only rarely find an artifact. Not one ring of power has appeared in the last month.

Some possible bugs I've been thinking it might be: 1. after passing the regular depth for an artifact, that artifact no longer is in the pool for a drop, or is made very rare. 2. the "out-of-depth" calculation for vaults isn't working properly.

That said, it is also entirely possible that the RNG is working just fine, it doesn't hate everyone, it just hates me....

[fph]

Some possible bugs I've been thinking it might be: 1. after passing the regular depth for an artifact, that artifact no longer is in the pool for a drop, or is made very rare. 2. the "out-of-depth" calculation for vaults isn't working properly.

Many artifacts have an upper depth limit of 100 or 127 (including many ones I haven't found yet), so I don't think it's something related to OOD drops.

I'll keep playing this character and let you know if something changes. I'm probably ready to take down Morgoth with my current equipment anyway.

[fph]

I have just noticed another artifact-related oddity. The artifact knowledge menu (~b) doesn't include all the artifacts that I have found, but only those that I have currently in my inventory+equipment. If I drop something at my house, it disappears from the list, and artifacts I have found and lost aren't on the list.

I have no idea how this can happen, but maybe it's helpful. Thanks for your help anyway!

[Carnivean]

The artifact knowledge menu (~b) doesn't include all the artifacts that I have found, but only those that I have currently in my inventory+equipment.!

Already in the bugs thread.

[Estie]

I dont know if this is related, but when I play a game with randarts (option: use same set of randarts: no), then die, then start same save file, but check the option (use same set of randarts: yes), it doesnt use the same ones as it used to in 3.5, but instead makes new ones based on the old randarts instead of the standarts. At least thats what I think happens, when I check the spoiler file, I see all artifacts based on some random name (based on Dorin) instead of normal artifact names (based on Ringil).

One time I had a game where I loaded a savefile on another computer, played till endgame, then realized I hadnt found a single artifact. At that point I just quit and didnt investigate further, believing that it was some kind of bug (possibly me using wrong version or something). I had cleared a checkerboard vault so im sure it was bug and not random probability peak.

[Timo Pietilä]

Many artifacts have an upper depth limit of 100 or 127 (including many ones I haven't found yet), so I don't think it's something related to OOD drops.

Actually that could be the issue. He is at 4850', which means that vault that has bigger than +3 dlvls spots makes the generation depth 5000'+, and that would then prevent items with limit of 100 from appearing.

Items with 127 as limit are usually rarer.

[kandrc]

I just had a randart ranger winner last night playing 4.0.1 whose first artifact was an otherwise garbage sword with +2 con early on (turn 24479, 3400'). Was wearing =escaping, so wielded the sword until =speed showed up; however, no other artifacts dropped. Started planning for a no-art endgame when the One showed up in a divisi vault (the big Union Jack) at 4850' (turn 129794).

This is my second run with 4.0.1. First was a loser, but had no artifacts drop (literally none), also randart. I removed my .angband directory between, in case that may have been the problem. Playing in Linux. Building from source.

Final kit was BoC of extra attacks <+2>, Long Bow of Lothlorien (x5), RoS <+13>, The One Ring, Amulet of Trickery, Lantern of True Sight, Balance DSM of Resistance, Elven Cloak of the Magi, Small Metal Shield (Dwarven), Crown of the Magi, Gauntlets of Combat <+1 con>, and Boots of Speed <+10>.

The One replaced a =con <+6> and allowed me to drop the helm of telepathy and get a crown of might for more +con, but I never found one, so I put on the Magi crown for hlife. Also never found any ammo of acid, slay evil or holy might of any type. Took out Morgy at clvl 42 with 18/180 con, just over 700 hp, and +41 speed, hasted, using mostly arrows of wounding and some highly-enchanted, normal arrows (easy to get them to +13 with Tenser's).

Only my third time finding the One in over 20 years of play and countless winners.

[AndyHK]

I’ve played and won with High-Elf Mage on 4.0.0 (unfortunately not without resurrecting the character when he died a few times) and likewise have noticed that artifacts seem way more scarce than in 3.5.1.

My mage found a total of 11 artifacts in over 350,000 standard turns. He found no lights, amulets, gloves or cloaks. He did find 2 rings of power and for the sake of full disclosure one was the One Ring.

I also noticed a scarcity of artifacts in beta testing and I did comment on it at the time.

I looked at a previous winner from 3.5.1 (Gnome Mage this time) who won in 477,849 standard turns and in that time found 64 artifacts including 3 rings, 5 amulets, 4 lights, 2 gloves and 3 cloaks.

There are about 135 artifacts and in 3.5.1 I found over 50% of them, whereas at least twice both in 4.0.0 and in 4.0beta I found less than 10%. Based on my experience I am going to vote this is a bug. I am playing the Windows version with randarts on. I am starting again and I’ll be interested to see what I find.

[fph]

Do you other people reporting similar scarcity happen to have chardumps available? It would be interesting to check if artifacts stop appearing altogether after a certain depth/turncount, or at least if their distribution tells something.

(by the way, I lost the character I was mentioning at the beginning of the thread to a classic mistake with the Tarrasque. I'll keep a copy of the savefile in case you guys need it for debugging purposes, but I don't plan on replaying it.)

[Timo Pietilä]

classic mistake with the Tarrasque.

Forgot to have fire or cold resistance?

[fph]

Forgot to have fire or cold resistance?

No - I had permanent+temporary resist to both fire and cold and disenchantment resistance. I was down to 350-something hit points, and decided that zapping a rod of healing was a better idea than quaffing a potion. (as a warrior). No one else but me to blame.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Do you other people reporting similar scarcity happen to have chardumps available? It would be interesting to check if artifacts stop appearing altogether after a certain depth/turncount, or at least if their distribution tells something

There are a bunch of mine on the ladder from 3.5, 3.5.1, 4.0beta, 4.0, and 4.0.1. You can see from the history lists that artifacts have become rarer, although they do still drop.

[Timo Pietilä]

No - I had permanent+temporary resist to both fire and cold and disenchantment resistance. I was down to 350-something hit points, and decided that zapping a rod of healing was a better idea than quaffing a potion. (as a warrior). No one else but me to blame.

I have actually forgot to have fire resistance against Tarrasque (switched gear around to get max damage gear and took out the only item giving the resistance in the process). That was a short fight with record high negative hitpoints.