Artifacts and Banishment

[dhegler]

First, can monsters carry artifacts? I thought they could not, but I could be wrong...

I was in a vault which I would have expected to have a few artifacts, banished a bunch (almost all) of the monsters, and was left with 1-2 early-game artifacts at a dlvl depth of 60-65. It just seemed odd to me, although it could just be bad luck, I believe the "feeling" was 9-9, which made me think there should be something more worthwhile there, but no PDSM, Balance, etc either...

[Derakon]

First, can monsters carry artifacts? I thought they could not, but I could be wrong...

I was in a vault which I would have expected to have a few artifacts, banished a bunch (almost all) of the monsters, and was left with 1-2 early-game artifacts at a dlvl depth of 60-65. It just seemed odd to me, although it could just be bad luck, I believe the "feeling" was 9-9, which made me think there should be something more worthwhile there, but no PDSM, Balance, etc either...

Monsters can spawn with artifacts in their inventory, but once dropped, they can't be picked up again.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Monsters can spawn with artifacts in their inventory, but once dropped, they can't be picked up again.

I've always wondered whether the treasure feeling included the objects spawned in monster inventory as well as on the floor, or just the floor only. Anyone have a definitive answer?

[dhegler]

Monsters can spawn with artifacts in their inventory, but once dropped, they can't be picked up again.

What if you banish a monster with an artifact in its inventory? Is it then lost? Or is it not lost because it was never identified or picked up by the character?

[Derakon]

What if you banish a monster with an artifact in its inventory? Is it then lost? Or is it not lost because it was never identified or picked up by the character?

If you have not learned the name of an artifact, then the artifact cannot be lost (when playing in preserve mode).

[Nick]

I've always wondered whether the treasure feeling included the objects spawned in monster inventory as well as on the floor, or just the floor only. Anyone have a definitive answer?

Floor only.

[Timo Pietilä]

If you have not learned the name of an artifact, then the artifact cannot be lost (when playing in preserve mode).

Also even with preserve off artifacts in monster inventory don't get lost.

[Timo Pietilä]

First, can monsters carry artifacts? I thought they could not, but I could be wrong...

I was in a vault which I would have expected to have a few artifacts, banished a bunch (almost all) of the monsters, and was left with 1-2 early-game artifacts at a dlvl depth of 60-65. It just seemed odd to me, although it could just be bad luck, I believe the "feeling" was 9-9, which made me think there should be something more worthwhile there, but no PDSM, Balance, etc either...

9-9 is high, very high. Dungeon only spellbooks, speed rings and all DSM count.

It is possible that there were some very high level items that got picked up and/or trampled over by elementals/Xorn/Xaren.

[quarague]

I thought that monster drops are only generated once a monster is killed. So in that sense you can't banish a monster carrying an artifact, the game will only start rolling dice to see what the monster carried after you killed it.

[Timo Pietilä]

I thought that monster drops are only generated once a monster is killed.

That used to be the case, but now every monster gets its drop/inventory created when monster is created. There was some sensible reason for this change, but I can't remember what it was.

[PowerWyrm]

- dlvl 60 is not that deep, if you get a huge vault with a ton of junk the feeling will be max
- feeling includes stuff that is squelched -- for example Wrath of God if you're not playing a cleric and you squelched all priest books

[MattB]

I thought that monster drops are only generated once a monster is killed. So in that sense you can't banish a monster carrying an artifact, the game will only start rolling dice to see what the monster carried after you killed it.

I seem to recall that, when playing competitions, the dlvl1 monsters always drop the same things. Which is odd, as you start at dlvl zero. Or have I imagined this? (Quite possible)

[Derakon]

I seem to recall that, when playing competitions, the dlvl1 monsters always drop the same things. Which is odd, as you start at dlvl zero. Or have I imagined this? (Quite possible)

If you always do the same actions before heading into the dungeon, then the RNG will be in the same state and will generate the same dungeon and monsters with the same items.

[MattB]

If you always do the same actions before heading into the dungeon, then the RNG will be in the same state and will generate the same dungeon and monsters with the same items.

WOW!
Does it really work like that?
I feel a major breakdown in self-determinism that gives me a deep seated unease that never really struck me in the real world (even though it is at least as true in real life as it is in Angband).
I'm not really able to put into words exactly why this unsettles me so much.
Given identical circumstances, every human reaction would be the same (for a given particular human) and thus it would be possible from dungeon generation of dlvl zero to accurately predict what level the character would die on!
Spooky.

And, on a more technical level, I usually take the competition rules at their word, and take advantage of the 'intial shopping trip' rule before making that my recurrent savefile. Given that I always end that shopping trip on the down stair, the exact scenario you describe above would occur every time.

Thanks for the particularly perceptive answer.

[Nick]

I'm not really able to put into words exactly why this unsettles me so much.

You can see this in a really striking way if you have a version which runs the borg - because the borg is also deterministic. So given the exact same starting character, the borg will play the exact same game every time you run it.