YASD: umber hulks *never miss?*

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  • Bogatyr
    Knight
    • Feb 2014
    • 525

    YASD: umber hulks *never miss?*

    I thought a stack of Cure Serious wounds would be sufficient to deal with Umber Hulks...not so, that sucker never missed me, not once, it confused me about 40 turns or more in a row, with a > 50% saving throw to boot. I went through the entire stack (30 or so) cure light wounds hoping for a random strike to hit him, only hit once, so....

    Anyway, I like the gnome mage, if you put all DEX into INT in the roller you get to 18/50 which means really fast leveling via spells.

    OK, so much more respect to the stupid X's.

    And next time, a staff of teleport is moved much earlier up the shopping list.
  • Derakon
    Prophet
    • Dec 2009
    • 9022

    #2
    Saving throws don't help against status effects caused by melee attacks, with the sole exception of paralysis (which is bizarre but being paralyzed sucks really badly, so I guess this is the devs throwing players a bone). Your probably is probably that since you were playing a Gnome Mage, your puny STR meant you had next to no armor, so the Umber Hulk had no problem getting around your AC and thus a >90% hit rate.

    Next time, don't let them into melee range, or wear more armor.

    Comment

    • Timo Pietilä
      Prophet
      • Apr 2007
      • 4096

      #3
      Originally posted by Bogatyr
      I thought a stack of Cure Serious wounds would be sufficient to deal with Umber Hulks...not so, that sucker never missed me, not once, it confused me about 40 turns or more in a row
      40 turns a row means you had decent amount of HP to start with.

      Don't try to cure confusion, just hit it. If you have even moderate melee-weapon you hit it often enough that it runs way before you are dead. Even when confused the direction you try to move matters. Your movement isn't completely random even then, you move at the right direction more often than other directions.

      Comment

      • Bogatyr
        Knight
        • Feb 2014
        • 525

        #4
        Originally posted by Timo Pietilä
        40 turns a row means you had decent amount of HP to start with.

        Don't try to cure confusion, just hit it. If you have even moderate melee-weapon you hit it often enough that it runs way before you are dead. Even when confused the direction you try to move matters. Your movement isn't completely random even then, you move at the right direction more often than other directions.
        I had enough to get in one or maybe two swings in between heal quaffing. I tried to hit it, I hit it once, my weapon was strong enough to do decent damage, only needed a few more swings, but I missed every time after the first hit. Mages are not good fighters...

        Comment

        • Derakon
          Prophet
          • Dec 2009
          • 9022

          #5
          Originally posted by Bogatyr
          I had enough to get in one or maybe two swings in between heal quaffing. I tried to hit it, I hit it once, my weapon was strong enough to do decent damage, only needed a few more swings, but I missed every time after the first hit. Mages are not good fighters...
          Next time, don't let them into melee range, or wear more armor.

          Comment

          • Tibarius
            Swordsman
            • Jun 2011
            • 429

            #6
            my 2 cents

            If something moves into melee range it is time to move as mage, or you stand on a rune of protection, or on a stair.

            Edit: And more luck (and fun) with the next char!
            Blondes are more fun!

            Comment

            • Thraalbee
              Knight
              • Sep 2010
              • 707

              #7
              Start with !speed before you try to get unconfused. It helps. Fighting confused works better in a corridor IIRC.

              Comment

              • Tibarius
                Swordsman
                • Jun 2011
                • 429

                #8
                Umber Hulk

                Ups ... suddenly my rogue was dead. Obviously the master mystic and the Plasma hound hitted me too hard, while i felt like superman. That is the most dangerous Situation, you move through 99% of the Monsters like a hot knife through butter ... and are not Observant for the rest
                Blondes are more fun!

                Comment

                • Bogatyr
                  Knight
                  • Feb 2014
                  • 525

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Tibarius
                  Ups ... suddenly my rogue was dead. Obviously the master mystic and the Plasma hound hitted me too hard, while i felt like superman. That is the most dangerous Situation, you move through 99% of the Monsters like a hot knife through butter ... and are not Observant for the rest
                  Yup. Repeat after me: "There are ALWAYS monsters that can kill you VERY QUICKLY. IN EVERY STAGE OF THE GAME" Especially in combination. Don't ever let yourself get surrounded, if you do, bail immediately.

                  Yeah I was in fact heading for the stairs (I was just 2-3 steps away, OH THE HUMANITY (GNOMITY?)), I got lazy trying to spell kill the umber hulk, I let it get one square too close. GnMageIII is now up to clev 19 and diving fast. I find I never really made proper use of the stairs as an escape before, it's quite essential for fast deep diving. Gnome mages really rock with devices. I for the first time made it a major strategy to build stacks of Frost Bolts [great for hydra pits], Acid Bolts [great for just about anything], Dragon Flame (watch those Vampires BURN!), and of course, Drain Life and Annihilation: D's and unique p's melt before your eyes, its fantastic. Thanks to (Derakon I believe?) who evangelized attack wands/rods for mages... what a difference it makes!

                  Sigh, GnMageI had practically absolutely EVERYTHING except Kelek's: all resists except stun. He was just missing maxed CON. And the worst thing was I HAD CON swaps with me, I just didn't have them on (I was more interested in all resists). Well you can't resist mana storms, so yeah, doh.
                  Last edited by Bogatyr; February 4, 2015, 21:54.

                  Comment

                  • Nick
                    Vanilla maintainer
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 9647

                    #10
                    You should play a variant that has Umber Hulk pits
                    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                    Comment

                    • Bogatyr
                      Knight
                      • Feb 2014
                      • 525

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Nick
                      You should play a variant that has Umber Hulk pits
                      haha no thanks, good ol' vanilla is deadly enough already.

                      Comment

                      • Derakon
                        Prophet
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 9022

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bogatyr
                        haha no thanks, good ol' vanilla is deadly enough already.
                        You say that like this isn't the first gameplay change that Nick will import into Vanilla once the restruct is done.

                        Comment

                        • Timo Pietilä
                          Prophet
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 4096

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Derakon
                          You say that like this isn't the first gameplay change that Nick will import into Vanilla once the restruct is done.
                          We need more monsters for X and Y. X has three and Y only two. Feels like waste of symbols there.

                          Wiki says that D&D has three kinds of xorns: "Xorn come in three categories: minor, average, and elder". Maybe we should make those into game too, a bit like vampires are now.

                          Comment

                          • Bogatyr
                            Knight
                            • Feb 2014
                            • 525

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Derakon
                            You say that like this isn't the first gameplay change that Nick will import into Vanilla once the restruct is done.
                            Sounds great, and there will be potions of confusion resistance available at the alchemist stop to go along with that, right? Or make mushrooms of clear mind much more common. Or create a farming skill to grow the mushroom of your choice, etc. Otherwise it's just a case of "detect, leave level," and that's not much fun.

                            Comment

                            • Timo Pietilä
                              Prophet
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 4096

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bogatyr
                              Sounds great, and there will be potions of confusion resistance available at the alchemist stop to go along with that, right? Or make mushrooms of clear mind much more common. Or create a farming skill to grow the mushroom of your choice, etc. Otherwise it's just a case of "detect, leave level," and that's not much fun.
                              Umber hulks are wimps. Ever played NPP? Those hydra pits are horrifying.

                              Comment

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